asimina tribola/American pawpaw/ temperate custard apple

Jantina says...
Hi Anonymous,my research indicates that you need two trees althougth it says that occasionally you do get a self fertile tree it,s rare.Do you mind telling me where you got your tree? I have got one and would love to buy some more.I have seen them in Japan for about 15 dollars australian.It,s enough to make you gnash your teeth.Jantina

Jantina says...
Thankyou Lynne,I will do some research in that direction as soon as I can.Jantina

lynne says...
Thank you Jantina - that's a good site. There's a person near Daylesford in Victoria who will have several seedlings available next Feb/March. He's happy for me to give his contact number off line so if you are interested and can make it to Daylesford, please send me an email cclynne@gmail.com

larry says...
You can obtain JuJubes at Perry's Nursery in S.Australia . Sit down for the price , though.

fruitist says...
I have a few PawPaw seedlings and 1 Chinese Jujube (late Rick Deerings cultivar). Pawpaws are protogynous, that is the stigma (female part) ripens before the anthers (pollen-bearing) and is self-incompatible. Therefore, two trees are required in order for fruit to be produced. The natural pollinators (flies and beetles) are not particularly efficient, and hand-held pollination with a paint brush is important for good fruit set. Some people have reported self-fruitfulness though but yields are always better with a companion tree even if the tree is self fruitful. There are 7 cultivars of PawPaw. In terms of taste, here are the notes:
Shenandoah: Extremely sweet and strongly flavored. Shenandoah has these characteristics and very enjoyable to eat (it is something like 26 brix).
Susquehana: Not as sweet as Shenandoah (still a very sweet fruit though) almost as strongly flavoured (but a bit milder). Very enjoyable.
Taytwo: the least sweet and flavored of the bunch. Still very enjoyable it is a more subtile fruit than the above two (mind you it is only subtile in comparison- it still has a lot of flavor and sweetness for some random fruit). Closest in flavor to the good wild pawpaws I've had.
Overleese: basically a sweeter version of Taytwo with slightly more flavor.
1-7-1: advanced selection.
2-9:
Pa Golden:

fruitist says...
Hi Jantina,

They are not available in Oz. Brix is a measure of the sugar content of the fruit pulp. If you are in Japan, see if you can find the new variety of seedless Loquat.

Jantina says...
Hi fruitist and Phil,thanks for the explanation of brix,I only have two and a half more days in Japan and my Japanese is almost none existent however us fruit fiends are up for almost any fruit related challenge so I will give it my best shot about the loquat and will post results.Phil your report is very encouraging.I have sent away for some seed but my understanding is that it,s not seed from any particular variety.Would you be able to give me the site you got your seeds from please.Thankyou Jantina P.S.which state are you growing your pawpaws in Phil?

Jantina says...
Thanks Phil,one more request, I have read some talk of having to stratify stored seed with both heat and cold in order to germinate them not to mention that they need certain symbiotic soil organisms? fungi? to grow well.Could you please detail exactly what you did ?I will leave a message on Cloudforest Cafe as you suggest.Thanks, Jantina

Jantina says...
Thankyou Phil for the detail.I have put a message on Cloudforest but if you say autumn then it gives me time to track down a source,maybe even the American Pawpaw Society.If I find a good source I will post it here.

Jantina says...
Thanks fruitist,Think I know what you mean even if I,ve never heard two of those words before.When you say only a few seedlings left now does that mean the others died or you gave them away?Do you have any to sell?Can you tell me where you got your seeds?Are they from named varieties?What state do you live in? I,ve been talking on this thread while in Japan as you know but live in S.A. near Mt. Gambier.Still working on the loquat info.

Anonymous says...
Hi Jantina,
Most of my PP seedlings died through lack of care. I did give a few away. I got the seeds from USA from a researcher on the fruit. I live in Brisbane. He is not in contact anymore.

Seedless Loquat is a brand new cultivar. The fruits may not be available in retail shops. Heard of it from a Japan based American 2 years ago. You have to ring up the Japan Agricultural Dept. to find the source.

Keep up your collection. Remind me of my enthusiasm many years ago.

Jantina says...
HI Jason, I,m definitely contacting Louis Glowinski when I get back,if I,m really lucky he might be having another open day.Fruitist,I have some Japanese people trying to check out the seedless loquat.Trouble is the older people who do the gardening don,t speak english and the younger ones who do are not interested in gardening.Thanks for your encouragement.The plane awaits.

Jantina says...
Hey fruitist, you are of course right but I am a computer dud and do not seem to be able to get this computer to do anything but a comma.Feel free to enlighten me!We got back home late last night, boy have things exploded out of the ground, some young fruit trees have grown 8 inches in those 3 weeks and established (4 y.o.)trees are mostly loaded.Pity there are so many slips twixt the tree and the lips!

Jantina says...
Thankyou clean phil,I will follow that up.The other asimina triloba seed I sent for turned not to be available.Love the name Mr. Blossom!

Jantina says...
Hi Peter,I have tasted one and thought it was totally delicious.The texture is a bit like avocado and the taste is sweet,a bit banana/vanilla/fruity.Of course that depends on the variety you are tasting and whether it is at it,s best or not.I am hooked.

Jantina says...
YES PLEASE! are you seriously saying you have asimina triloba seedlings when I have been scouring the internet for them?Please send me details, we go to Adelaide several times a year.

Laura Mckay says...
Asminas are quite easy to grow and will fruit quite well in cooler areas. I have four, all seed raised from the same tree. They seem to pollinate each other well. Young plants can be bought from Tamsal Trees, Ph 02 6070808, email : treetubes@yahoo.com.au. Mattew & Joy Corr have several unusual fruit trees such as Hovenias, Pecan etc.

Jantina says...
Thats the thing with seed grown, the fruit quality can be quite variable, the one I tasted was delicious.Julie do you remember how long it took to fruit from seed? Peter, thanks for the info, I did get a small seedling (expensive) from there but it died not long after planting in spite of tlc so I am reluctant to go that route again. Laura,thankyou for the Tamsal Trees info I will check it out.

John says...
Phoenix is now called the "lost seed".

Phil says...
Jantina I've been in touch with a fellow in North Carolina who has a limited supply of seeds from named pawpaw varieties if you still want some.

Phil says...
He would like to trade them for quandong seeds or davidson plum if you can get hold of any in SA

Phil says...
Ok that'd be great, he has seen from the Petersen breeding program in the US and some great sounding cultivars. A seed swap would be great.

Jantina says...
Their pawpaws sound scrumptious .They say they no longer sell seed but I have emailed and asked if they would make an exception for Oz. The worst they can do is just delete me.

Jantina says...
James,did you give the pawpaws shade?Apparently it is essential when they are young.I would be keen to buy some quandong seed from you.Tried mango but lost it, during the drought we had some nasty frosts that we do not usually get.I had only seen quandong grown with kikuyu grass before, and since I hate that stuff it put me off having a go but today I saw some growing with an easter daisy and now you say it also grows with wheat,I like that much better.

RolFlor a says...
Which nursery sells A.triloba in australia?

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Randy says...
Yamina rare plants in Melbourne sells seedlings

Jantina says...
Hello Bass, nice to see you on this forum.I did have the seeds in the fridge, but then planted them as per instructions from Phil who said he has 100% success with his seeds (pawpaw seed that he imports). He said I won't see anything until spring this year. Sorry to have been so slack in getting back to you with an update, life gets so very busy. How are your figs going ? my sister in England (Somerset) said it was 14 below freezing when we spoke a few days ago, while we have been sweltering in 30c and my main worry is keeping things from drying out too much. I haven't forgotten about sending some property pictures , it will happen eventually. Cheers Jantina

peter says...
judyc,
this is an older thread about
these american pawpaws.

Simon says...
Where were you able to get named varieties from?

Phil. says...
Thanks Jantina - how are your seedlings coming along?

Phil. says...
Yes picked the one and only mango on a tree growing on the property the day I arrived. The tree is only about four ft (that's about 1.2m for RolFlor a) tall. So much tropical fruit on roadside stalls and markets you almost don't need to grow your own. White sapote trees have really taken off here, I dug them up after almost no growth in the six or seven years they'd been in the ground in Victoria and brought them with me - each plant is covered in healthy new shoots. Yes keep your pawpaw seedlings in the shade until their third year, after thatthey do better in the sun. Careful of snails and slugs as they can chew off the first shoot to emerge.

R OlFlora says...
SPELLING MISTAKE:Asimina triLOBA.

Steve says...
John, "Chinese whipsers", my friend - Phoenix & The Lost Seed are both in Tassie, but are two totally different businesses, no relation.

Iogikuma says...
In November 2008 Jantina said:
"all I can find is one grafted one(with excellent flavour) at a very high price"

Jantina, would you mind advising who has those grafted American Pawpaw plants? At least with a grafted plant it will be true to type, will bear fruit more quickly and will have overcome the problems it would face growing from seed. IMHO that is worth paying extra for.

Daniel

Phil@Tyalgum says...
Hi Michael (Bangalow) - sorry didn't notice your post until this week, all my seeds are now seedlings. They came from a research station in the US, parent plants are Shenandoah, Susquehanna, Pa Golden and Aleghenny. Their various attributes and photos can be seen on petersonpawpaws.com. They seem to be thriving in my climate, but will need around 400 hours of winter chill.

Phil@Tyalgum says...
I have a friend in North Carlolina who managed to get some seed before the research centre stopped supply to the general public. I have seen seed for sale on ebay a number of times ( search for paw paw or Asimina ) - you may even see better varieties available. Don't forget to ask the supplier to label your package with the species name so that it gets through customs here. I nearly lost the lot as they were labelled Shennandoah, Susquehanna etc, and had to explain to the Dept that they were merely named varieties of the same species. There are a few nurseries in Victoria that sell seedlings but they are easy to germinate if you import your own seed.

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Phil@Tyalgum says...
ok - I imagine there are different varieties around but check out the images on this website
www.petersonpawpaws.com
there are some photos of the fruit, flowers and trees which may be of some help

Phil@Tyalgum says...
Could you maybe take a photo of the leaves, fruit or flowers? Someone on this site may be able to ID it. I've noticed when searching Google Images that there are a number of different plants known as pawpaw, especially in the latin american countries/carribean.

recher says...
i got a suckering grove. i get the rare fruit. they require cross pollination for good set

Phil@Tyalgum says...
Ok might be able to do that although my plants are only two years old. Still you're welcome to a few seedlings of named (parent) varieties, might come down and see your setup later next year. Phil.

Jantina says...
I don't know what variety of Asimina Triloba the Guru has in his garden but my understanding of his open days is that they are no more. I would love it if somebody could refute that and say he is definitely going to be open because I would make the 450 km trip to see it.

Phil@Tyalgum says...
I'm surprised at how well my two year old plants are doing here in the subtropics. I've kept them in light shade, will probably plant out next spring. Like you, Viginny, I found direct sun fried them so will put this lot under some deciduous trees. Hoping the chill factor in the mountains up here is enough to get them to fruit.

J says...
Does anyone know what variety of American Paw paw Lous Glowinksi has growing in his garden?

I'm curious because I've bought some grafted plants whose original cuttings came from glowinskis tree, and I'm curious to find out what actual variety it is. The seller didn't know the original name.

Jantina says...
Hi Phil, things are sounding good up there. Been meaning to let you know that you were right and that I now have 37 seedlings up and running (Bass sent me a few too). Now I just need to be brave enough to plant them out. Dis you get my last email about the lucuma seeds from Jujube?

J says...
Hey phil, my plants are from the Yamina Rare plants people! They advised me ones a pennsylvania Gold and the other two I got is the variety which louis Glowinksi has in his backyard. They couldn't remember the actual name of the variety and thats why I'm asking here, so I can find out more about it!

J says...
Exactly BJ. They named it after louis glowinski because its grown off cuttings gotten from his American paw paw tree. Anyone that knows what the actual proper name of the variety would be helping me out greatly!

John Mc says...
Hmmmm, very interesting thread. Thanks for all the info fellow fruities, I've just found another favourite plant to collect. I'm tempted to get some seed from the US via E-bay. No sellers specify from which var the seeds were collected. Cheap enough though.
Any recomendations as to which US seller to contact?

It appears Yamina rare plants might be the way to go.
They have a minimum $200 order + freight(200mm pots)all named varieties.
I see Yamina rare plants will be on site at a plant collectors site next month, only about 150k from my place. I might be able to arange something with them, might be worth a phone call.

Phil@Tyalgum says...
They need around 400 hours of chill. Have a look at the cultural advice page of Peterson paw paws

www.petersonpawpaws.com

some mouth watering pics as well.

Phil@Tyalgum says...
I'm hopeful that in the hinterland here I'll get enough chill for fruit set. Kind of at the base of Mt Warning, light frosts most winters. Great site tho for info, I have some seedlings from Allegheny, Pa. Golden, Susquehana and Shennendoah.

BJ says...
A link from the Peterson site noted that Kentucky Forrestry was selling seedlings from seed from KYUniversity trialled plants, but the link seemed dead. If you wanted to try and get some seeds from a decent variety, it might be worthwhile giving them an email or something?

http://www.pawpaw.kysu.edu/default.htm

Phil@Tyalgum says...
Yeah I've planted them all out worse luck.. don't know if they grow from cuttings, a few have double stems which might be a goer. Leave it with me and I'll see what I can do.

John Mc says...
Why thank you for the offer Jantina,
Yes I've been very serious about my garden for years. I've never participated in the forum, just read and read and read. I've since found it's quite enjoyable interacting with fellow fruities like youself and sharing things I've accomplished over the years as well. It's all good fun.

Anyway, I'm a bit concerned about the low chill hours to break dormancy in the American pawpaw.
Ideally, I need a variety that comes from the south of the USA. Apparently they need less chill hours.
I bought 15 seeds collected from the wild from a guy in NJ, near New York. Might be a mistake, but what the hell, they're on their way now. If they all germinate I'll be giving at least 10 away. Like my Cacao trees, from the exact opposite climate, I've got too many (10) and they're all getting a bit too big to post anywhere now. They will live their entire life in my heated hothouse.

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John Mc says...
Thanks Phil@Tyalgum,
Did you still want a couple of miracle fruit trees? I have a couple of very small ones here getting in my way. No strings attached mate.
Here's a pic of each one.

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John Mc says...
I m thinking of buying 6 so called superior germinated seeds from this mob :
http://www.blossomnursery.com/pawpaw_order_form.htm
They re in the US. Something like $46 delivered.

Any input from anyone before I go ahead and order?

John Mc says...
Very happy. My 15 "selected wild" American Paw paw seeds arived this morning from the US. Nice and quick. Now, many questions if I may:
do I pot them up into the deepest pot I can find like the 6 lit grow bags we buy fruit trees in?
Do I put the grow bag and all in the crisper section in the frig untill you see comming up?
or do I only leave the grow bags in the fridge for 6 weeks and then remove them?
If I've got this all wrong and back to front, can anyone, please, advise on the best method for germination.

BJ says...
This from KYSU might help:

Pawpaw seed is slow to germinate, but it is not difficult to grow seedlings if certain procedures are followed. Do not allow the seed to freeze or dry out, because this can destroy the immature, dormant embryo. If seeds are dried for 3 days at room temperature, the germination percentage can drop to less than 20%. To break dormancy, the seed must receive a period of cold, moist stratification for 70-100 days. This may be accomplished by sowing the seed late in the fall and letting it overwinter; the seed will germinate the following year in late July to late August. Another way is to stratify the seed in the refrigerator (32o- 40o F/0o- 4o C). In this case the cleaned seed should be stored in a plastic ziplock bag with a little moist sphagnum moss to keep the seed moist and suppress fungal and bacterial growth. After stratification the seed should be sown 1 inch (2.5 cm) deep in a well-aerated soil mix, pH 5.5-7, with an optimum temperature of 75o- 85oF (24o- 29o C). Use tall containers, such as tree pots (ht. 14"-18"/35-45 cm) or root trainers (ht. 10"/25 cm), to accommodate the long taproot. The seed will normally germinate in 2-3 weeks, and the shoot will emerge in about 2 months. Germination is hypogeal: the shoot emerges without any cotyledons. For the first two years, growth is slow as the root system establishes itself, but thereafter it accelerates. Trees normally begin to bear fruit when the saplings reach 6 feet, which usually requires five to eight years.

John Mc says...
What temperature should these seeds be stratified at? The thermometer in the beer fridge is reading 6` C. I m thinking I should be closer to 0` C but not actually freezing.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Jantina says...
Hi Mick,any chance I could come and have a look at your tree one day when I am down Adelaide way (no offence taken if you say no).

Iogikuma says...
For those who are interested in obtaining a copy of Glowinski's book, I thought I'd pass on the latest from Glowinski's publisher (Hachette). I just spoke to them on the phone and Glowinski's book "The Complete Book of Fruit Growing in Australia" has been reprinted and should be available again from the end of April 2010. The woman I spoke to said it is probably the December 2008 edition (fully revised from the early 1990s edition) without any further updates.

Daniel

John Mc says...
Quote "Iogikuma says...
CHANCE TO BUY ASIMINIAS AT THE BILPIN COLLECTORS PLANT FAIR!"

I'd be in that if there is anyone going. I'd love a couple of varieties.

Iogikuma says...
Yes, BJ, that's correct. Dymock's still has stock for $60. But other booksellers with stock are selling down to about $53.50 for the 2008 edition. As I'm not desperate, I'm going to wait to buy the 2010 edition at whatever best discount price I can get.

Daniel

amanda says...
$55 for a grafted plant? Bargain! can u even get 2 cartons of beer for that? the time and effort to grow 2 plants, graft them, then grow the graft up? Imagine all the failures thrown in...the wages, water, etc etc. I don't know how they make money out of it myself :-?

allybanana says...
I would love the grow som asima plants does anyone have any asima seeds for sale or swap thanks ally

JUJUBE FOR SALE IN MELBOURNE says...
Hi John and Allybanana,

Last time I asked them regarding to asimina grafted trees, was told that they won't be available until at least November.

http://www.yaminarareplants.com.au/contents/edibleAndHerbal.htm

allybanana says...
WHOOPY! i have sprouts coming up i got the seeds from USA, cnstamps on ebay, he said they come from a wild stand of extra big fruit.

Jason says...
I got 100 seeds from maybe the same guy? years ago and got all 100 to germinate or near to it. But.. 4 years later? I have one plant and its about 20cm tall :0. I've been trying to grow these things off and on for 10 years and I even have a 10 year old paw paw that's 30 cm high at the most.

It's one of those plants I just don't seem to be able to grow and I'm not quite sure why not

kert says...
My experience is they are slow growing ,will germinate ,sometimes after 2 years. Best to germinate in something like moist Coco Peat. Surprisingly they flower early; this year a knee high plant has a flower on it. And, yes, shade is much preferred . Plants are also bothered by a black scale infestation.

j says...
When I purchased a couple of grafted ones, The gent at Yamina rare plants told me that the best time to plant them in the ground was summer. He indicated that the plants loved mountain (dandenong ranges) soil and he didn't think shade was that big a deal. He also mentioned that the plant will do nothing much above ground for a year or two while they are setting up their roots underground.

I've planted mine so they get some shade from other trees. The lovely Jantina recently gave me seedling that I have put into the ground. Sounds like I should have waited till next year.

j says...
My grafted trees are sprouting new leaves now. The seedling Jantina gave me (which I believe she got from you, phil, indirect thanks!) is just sprouting its first set of leaves. Hopefully it survives this summer. I plan on getting a few more grafted trees off yamina before the summer starts.

Dave says...
i bought mine directly from yamina nursery and planted them in the ground about four weeks ago when they had just started budding. I decided to put them under the shade of some 80 year old chestnut trees (well kind of inbetween so they weren't in the firing line of the chestnuts falling). When speaking to the guy at Yamina he suggested part shade as some of you've mentioned.
The reason I planted where they are now was partly because of shade but more to do with soil type. The chestnuts drop so much leaf matter and husks each year and breaks down into this thick layer of moist black rich earth. I read this before planting them worth a read. http://www.worldagroforestry.org/treedb2/AFTPDFS/Asimina_triloba.pdf

Where they grow indigenously proved the most interesting part, which reflects similarly where mine are placed, see extract below:
A. triloba is a tree of temperate humid growing zones, requiring warm to hot summers, mild to cold winters and is almost always found in nature as an understory tree of rich broadleaf deciduous forests growing in bottomland areas, on wooded slopes, ravines, along streams and in marshy areas with deep, rich, damp, sandy, or clayey acidic soils and high rainfall.
Who knows how these ones will go, they already have quite a few leaves all over but we'll see in years to come.
Another interesting thing about these guys is their medicine uses, the link also describes this and I'm not referring to the part about killing hair lice!

allybanana says...
Do you know if they have any Pennsylvania gold available, they sound pretty lush, if someone else gets one I would gladly trade for bud wood in a couple of years if my seedlings go well. I am just to far from Melbourne to pick one up.

Last Autumn I bought two 30-40 cm seedlings from my local nursery in Eden for 48 dollars each (makes $55 for a grafted one from Yamina sound cheap), Jill my local plant dealer said she got them from some wizened old gardener in Melbourne who has a tree, I am now curious as to who that fellow might be.

When I planted both seedlings I noticed a thick taproot had stopped as a fat stub at the bottom of the pot, is this likely to grow back? I am also wondering if I should put my two recently germinated sprouts in the ground as soon as possible to preserve this taproot.

Dave says...
Hi J,

Missed your last post somehow, but yeah mine are grafted also - not sure the exact name, I need to check with Yamina. I have seen some good growth on mine this spring with 30cm so far on one seedling, leaves are quite large already, some are 5-6 inches long, didn't actually expect that to say the least.
Great you're getting some good growth too J. Feel free to email me if you like seeing as we are close in location, compare notes and that sort of thing, my email is davidstirfry@yahoo.com.au.
Well back to the garden, going to repot my hawaiian guava in a larger pot in hopes that it will fruit next year.

Phil@Tyalgum says...
It would appear they need to be actively growing to move well, not when dormant. I planted tubestock out in midsummer this year and they did much better than the ones I planted in early spring as they were just leafing out.

LMStearn says...
Aalybanana,
How tall are they?
if you have a plant spare, can bring spade & tub for one. No block of units here. Good home. What would you accept as a reasonable offer?
lmstearn@bigpond.com
Laurie
Brogo

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J says...
Two of my foot tall (grafted) american paw paw are flowering! Did not expect that so soon. What's even better is the fact that they are two seperate varieties, so I'm going to be able to cross pollinate them. Now fingers crossed the possums don't figure out what they are..

J says...
I think the only people that do grafted american paw paw like my own that are flowering right now are Yamina. Mine have been in the ground for about a year and a half since purchase.

I believe there is another nursery that does seedlings. Not sure what the name was.. tas1? Allybana in a post on this thread said she got her seedlings from a local nursery in eden.