224 responses
Jon starts with ... I am looking two grow two avocado trees in eastern Melbourne. I am thinking of getting a Gwen and a Bacon avocado tree. This is because the Gwen is a dwarf species and is supposed to give excellent quality fruits. The Bacon is supposed to be very frost tolerant. They are opposite types so I'm hoping they will pollinate each other. I do have some questions though. 1. Has anyone else tried planting Gwen or Bacon in Melbourne? 2. Of what quality is Bacon's fruit? Edible? 3. Will I be able to keep Bacon to a height of about 4 metres, if well pruned? 4. Where can I get a Gwen tree? As you can see in the picture I have limited space, but I will be moving the plant on the left hand side, and possibly the compost bin. The fence is north facing. Thanks, Jon
| About the Author Jon Melbourne 29th December 2008 9:18am #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author John Perth 29th December 2008 9:49am #UserID: 1094 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 29th December 2008 10:21am #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 29th December 2008 9:05pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author John Perth 30th December 2008 10:01am #UserID: 1094 Posts: |
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| About the Author RolFlor a ' Westie ' HeightsSydney 30th December 2008 10:22am #UserID: 316 Posts: |
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Jon says... Thanks. Well, I've transplanted the other plant and it looks much more spacious now. I have one hole quite close to their fence and another close to the border of my garden bed. Hopefully this will give them a bit more room. I've also moved the one on the left more to the left. Any more advice on species? | About the Author Jon Melbourne 30th December 2008 9:55pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Jason says... Gwen and Rincon are both small trees (Rincon almost hedge like) also Wurtz but Wurtz is rubbish fruit, Rincon isn't that flash either. The fruit on Gwen is very much like Hass (closely related). Bacon is a very tall tree. I'd suggest to get a Hass and Fuerte for your A+B trees in Melboune and forget the rest. Fuerte will get tallish and take along time to set and decent amount of fruit but in the end it's much better than Bacon in both quality and quantity and you will mostly (for the first 5 years) just be using it for pollinating the Hass | About the Author Jason Portland 31st December 2008 12:21am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author RolFlor a ' Westie Sydney ' . 31st December 2008 7:37am #UserID: 316 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 31st December 2008 10:58am #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 31st December 2008 6:03pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author RolFlor a ' Westie' Sydney. 31st December 2008 6:54pm #UserID: 316 Posts: |
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Jon says... Okay, well there is NO way i can move the shed. I might move the compost bin later on when they grow, as that can just be carried away. I'm also considering transplanting a camellia, however that could turn bad.. Thanks for the more realistic photo Jason. Is that "baby hass" like a Gwen or a Holiday? Can they be 'contained' with pruning? And lastly, are there any type B dwarf species that have good fruit? Thanks, Jon | About the Author Jon Melbourne 1st January 2009 10:53pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 1st January 2009 10:55pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author RolFlor a ' Westie' Sydney. 1st January 2009 11:56pm #UserID: 316 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 2nd January 2009 8:36am #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Jon says... Could I plant two trees in one hole? Link: http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/all_ed/ed_plantTrees.html#multiplanting I've decided to move the camellia plants to the right about 1 metre which adds a metre more room for the avocados. Still looking for a dwarf fuerte or something... Any dwarf type b's? Jon | About the Author Jon Melbourne 3rd January 2009 9:38am #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Jon says... Here is the latest projection of how they'll look, although I know they're bigger and bushier. It looks like there is a tree hanging over the top of them however it actually ends around 3 metres before the garden bed and can be pruned. The white patch is where the camellia is but won't be for much longer. As you can see in the picture, it's been moved. Any comments or advice? Still looking for a dwarf type b avocado tree.
| About the Author Jon Melbourne 3rd January 2009 10:00am #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 3rd January 2009 9:30pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jack Fruit & Jilly Pilly IRAQ 3rd January 2009 9:36pm #UserID: 316 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 3rd January 2009 10:02pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 4th January 2009 8:59pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Alexa says... Hate to butt in, but I'm pretty sure you don't NEED two trees to get fruit in Melbourne. According to Glowinski's Complete Guide to Fruit Growing in Australia, the cooler weather allows self-fertilization. Sure you'd get higher yields with an A and B, but it really doesn't look like you have the room for both. It would be tragic if you planted two and in 10 years had to rip one out from lack of space. But I have not grown an avo in Melbourne so I can't say from first-hand experience. I'm planning on growing one soon though! That's also the first I've heard of Wurtz tasting bad...I had my eye on the wurtz, anyone else grown them? | About the Author Alexa Melbourne 20th January 2009 2:55pm #UserID: 1851 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 22nd January 2009 12:33pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Hayden says... Im not sure about the Gwen, but bacon will grow in Melbourne no problems. My friend lives in Hoppers Crossing and has a big Hass avocado in his backyard (approx 3-4 metres high), producing plenty of fruit with no other tree nearby, as Bacon is more cold hardy than hass, i would stick with bacon. But Hass is a definate option. | About the Author Hayden 22nd January 2009 1:53pm #UserID: 463 Posts: View All Hayden's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 23rd January 2009 7:57am #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Alexa says... Not I but I've also been told Bacon is the best for Melbourne because it tolerates cold the best. But I've also been told that someone has a wurtz in Melbourne and gets fruit from it. It probably depends on if your area gets a lot of frosts and if your spot would be sheltered from frosts. | About the Author Alexa Melbourne 23rd January 2009 9:28am #UserID: 1851 Posts: |
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Alexa says... I just noticed someone else discussing avocados in Melbourne on this thread. http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/forum/a-and-b-type-avocadoes/ They're getting fruit from Hass and Fuerte in Melb so it looks like you don't HAVE to grow Bacon. But those two are big trees! | About the Author Alexa Melbourne 23rd January 2009 9:31am #UserID: 1851 Posts: |
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Alexa says... Actually there are a LOT of questions about avocados on this forum! I searched the forum for "wurtz" and got a bunch of threads including this one about growing them in Melbourne. http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/forum/avocados-in-melbourne/ | About the Author Alexa Melbourne 23rd January 2009 9:34am #UserID: 1851 Posts: |
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Jon says... Thanks for that last thread Alexa. Good information there. I know Hass grows in Melbourne and Gwen is a a 'Hass child' or something and smaller than full size so I will be sticking with that for type A. Type B will most likely be either a Sir Prize or a Sharwil but I'm still looking into that. I think most trees should withstand the frosts with a bit of TLC. They will be in a fairly sheltered area. Jon | About the Author Jon Melbourne 23rd January 2009 2:33pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Jason says... Jon, Bacon "tastes" great if you like how avocados taste if you don't Hass will be better for you. Gwen is a much smaller tree than Hass, heavy fruiting and pretty much the same in everyway except small. But in a cool climate its ALLWAYS better to plant the most vigorous variety you can and cut it back if you have to when you have to. You can cut avocados part of the tree each year, that way you allways have fruiting wood on most of the tree. No type B's that I know of will fruit as heavily as the worst Type A in a cool climate. But Fuerte is the best Type B I have in both taste and production and a good pollinator, it's often slow to come into production compared to most varieties. My advice is to plant a Hass and Fuerte and be happy :) neither of them will fail you | About the Author Jason Portland 25th January 2009 11:25pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Jon says... I'm sure I'd be okay with Bacon but I don't think the rest of my family would like it. Problem is, someone just down the street from me has a fuerte and it is HUGE. It's about 8 metres tall and 8 metres across.. There's no way I could fit it. I've heard of a variety called Millicent which harvests at the same time as Hass and Gwen and is smaller than an average tree. I've scoured the internet but can't find anywhere that stocks it. Does anyone know a nursery or something? | About the Author Jon Melbourne 28th January 2009 1:21pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Jason says... Yeah but that 8 meters x 8 meter Fuerte tree could easily be 20 years old. I don't think the original parent Fuerte was even that size when found in Atlixco and it was a fairly old tree then. The first worry is getting them to grow and fruit. You can allways cut them back if you have to later on. I have a 8 year old fuerte tree in a dry location that's only 2 meters x 2 meters currently carrying around 100 fruit and a 5 year old 2 x 3 Hass with perhaps 200 fruit on it, they don't grow much at all once they start fruiting heavily unless you pile on the fertiliser and I barely ever fertilise any of my trees jsut because it costs way too much compared to planting more trees | About the Author Jason Portland 31st January 2009 3:02pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 31st January 2009 9:31pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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steve says... sunraysia nurseries Ph-03 50248502 email-sales@sunnraysianurseries.com.au www.sunnraysianurseries.com.au I recommend these guys. They have a great range of citrus & avocados & will post to you. They have bacon, fuerte, hass, reed, rincon, ryan, sharwill, wurtz, edranol, gwen, hazzard, lamb hass, jalna, millicent & Zutano. Plus they have all the info on them. Call them & ask them to post you their catalogue. Cheers.. | About the Author steve Jerilderie 31st January 2009 9:35pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jon says... i have been looking at their catalouge however when I emailed them they said they don't sell direct to public, so I tried their Garden centre. They had Gwen but no Millicent which I was thinking of getting. I will probably get my Gwen tree from them and another from there or someone else. Do you know a way to get a Millicent tree from them? Thanks Jon | About the Author Jon Melbourne 1st February 2009 5:11pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author steve Jerilderie 3rd February 2009 8:31pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 4th February 2009 6:18am #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Jon says... Well I rang Sunraysia Garden Centre today and order two avocado trees; a Gwen and a Sharwil. Unfortunately Daleys is still looking for Sharwil propagation materials. I was told they should arrive around next Wednesday and am looking forward to it after such a long wait. I'll keep everyone updated on how they go as I know a fair few people on this forum want to grow avocados in Melbourne. Thanks everyone for the help. Jon | About the Author Jon Melbourne 4th February 2009 7:48pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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toolman says... avocado trees are a great addition to your yard but hmmm, i was looking at the grass in the foreground of the proposed gwen, it seems to be struggling, what has happened there, are you going to increase the sunlight(trim overhead branches) or was it suffering lack of water, or soil condition?. | About the Author toolman central coast 27th February 2009 5:06am #UserID: 1704 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 28th February 2009 10:24am #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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Garry says... Hi just thought I would add I'm growing a Bacon, Hass and Wurtz in south Vic and they are all coping very well. Just needed some protection from frost/extreme sun so used temporary shelters with white shadecloth igloo's. They are thriving and i expect fruit prob next year. Some were burnt back in extreme heat over summer however I've recently pruned that back and new growth is sprouting out all over the place..!! Good luck with yours. | About the Author Garry Don Valley 21st April 2009 7:17pm #UserID: 2223 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne 26th April 2009 2:42pm #UserID: 1780 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jantina Mt. Gambier S.A. 26th April 2009 3:16pm #UserID: 1351 Posts: |
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| About the Author culebra Melbourne 7th August 2009 5:29pm #UserID: 2458 Posts: |
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Andy says... Hi, we have just purchased a potted avocado tree locally, Think it could be a bacon avocado variety. Any tips on maintaining it, I have already repotted it into a large terracotta pot with premium mix. It stands about 2 metres tall. The leaves were browning & it was rootbound in its old pot. | About the Author Andy Bowral NSW 10th August 2009 5:36pm #UserID: 2644 Posts: |
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| About the Author Robyn Thorpdale Vic 22nd August 2009 4:42pm #UserID: 2703 Posts: |
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| About the Author Martin Sydney 31st August 2009 10:34pm #UserID: 2736 Posts: |
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amanda says... Hi Robyn - both my Hass avo's died and I live in a very windy climate on a hill too - but this was due to salinity more than anything. You need to have very, very good soil and very good drainage. You also need a supply of good quality water. You can always build a windbreak from shadecloth etc until they are bigger - and get some fast growing windbreak trees up n running in the meantime. After trying many trees - I have started using cottonwoods (Hibiscus tiliaceus) and Kaffir plums - for example..they are outstanding in growth rate, toughness, drought tolerance, wind etc. | About the Author amanda Geraldton. WA 2nd September 2009 11:38am #UserID: 2309 Posts: View All amanda's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Dany Canberra 27th December 2009 1:11pm #UserID: 3152 Posts: |
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| About the Author Indigoclover 28th December 2009 3:46pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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J says... Very interested in this thread, as have been trying to find out as much information as possible before planting some avocados. Unlike a lot of others in this thread, I am not restricted by growth/size, but I do have a few questions as to what would suit my location/area best. Ideally I'd like to plant a Hass and whatever other type A's and type B's to help give good, quick & solid fruits on a slightly southerly facing slope, with very good drainage, around 25 to 35 metres from a very large dam water level. Apart from a Hass, what else can I do and plant to help with healthy trees, producing good fruit quickly?? Thanks J | About the Author J Lakes Entrance, Eastern Victoria 2nd January 2010 12:04pm #UserID: 3175 Posts: |
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| About the Author Roch Lynbrook, VIC 5th January 2010 12:24pm #UserID: 3191 Posts: View All Roch's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Robyn Thorpdale Vic 14th January 2010 9:22pm #UserID: 2703 Posts: |
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| About the Author tommy Geelong 31st January 2010 8:56am #UserID: 3317 Posts: |
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| About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 1st February 2010 9:24am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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Matt says... Hi. This is one of my Haas that are growing in Melbourne, Prahran. It was grown from seed and is about 3 years old. I have never noticed frost taking a toll but it has been savaged by possums twice. The leaves are supposed to have negative effects on wildlife that eat them and since it has not been attacked for 12 months, I am hoping that they have learned. They are in well drained soil and love a feed of fish emulsion whenever i get round to them. I think it would have been well worth the investment to plant a grafted tree and therfore get fruit 5 years earlier than growing from seed but I wasn't sure how well it would do down here and so really I just took a punt and if my Haas grew then it was a bonus and I lost nothing trying. Cheers. Matt. | About the Author Matt Prahran, VIC 15th February 2010 3:14pm #UserID: 3385 Posts: |
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| About the Author Matt Prahran, VIC 15th February 2010 3:22pm #UserID: 3385 Posts: |
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Matt says... Hi. Sorry one more thing that I would add is the fact that my Haas is very susceptible to having new shoots burning on hot days. Anything at or above 35, and its self pruning. I think that growing them in a semi shaded area would not be a bad idea. Hope my 2 cents worth helps someone cause i suspect its going to be too late for Jon :-) Matt | About the Author Matt Prahran, VIC 15th February 2010 3:40pm #UserID: 3385 Posts: |
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| About the Author amanda Geraldton. WA 15th February 2010 9:20pm #UserID: 2309 Posts: View All amanda's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Martin Sydney 16th February 2010 7:32pm #UserID: 2736 Posts: |
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Matt says... Thanks for the advice Amanda. I'm glad you like my tree, cause for some reason I'm really attached to it and I love my tree. It really makes me happy watching it recover from any trauma and generally grow larger. As corny as it sounds it brings me real joy this tree. Thanks again. Matt. | About the Author Matt Prahran, VIC 23rd February 2010 10:13pm #UserID: 3385 Posts: |
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Brendan says... Hi Matt, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you won't get a Hass avocado tree from a Hass avocado seed. Not only will it take 8 to 10 years to bear, if it ever does (some don't), you will get an unknown tree with an unknown fruit. You could be lucky and get good fruit, but usually, you get a strange looking fruit with a large seed. Also, seedling avo trees grow huge, whereas grafted trees don't grow that tall. If you can, buy a grafted avo tree. Some take only 2 years to bear. | About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 24th February 2010 9:08am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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| About the Author Grubs Melbourne 24th February 2010 10:12am #UserID: 3334 Posts: |
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Brendan says... Hi Grubs, Good question. I don't know, but I'd say it's because they're grafted? (Someone on this forum will know.) I've grown at least 8 Hass avocado trees from Hass seeds, and none of these produced a Hass fruit. Most of these trees are now over 20 years old. So I've sort of learnt from experience. Also, I've been told (by experts), that any seed from a grafted fruit will not bear true to form. It could be because of the 'rootstock'? Grafted trees grow true to form & bear a known variety, eg, Hass. Mind you, some of my old seedling avocado trees do produce good (but strange looking) fruit, and yes, some do have large seeds. Best idea, plant both types :) | About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 25th February 2010 8:38am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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Phil@Tyalgum says... The story of the original Hass avocado tree makes interesting reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hass_avocado Of course the tree lives on as millions of scions/grafts/budwood all over the world. Seeds however have two parents so you will get the characteristics of both in the resulting plant, rarely duplicating the original.
| About the Author Phil@Tyalgum Murwillumbah 25th February 2010 12:17pm #UserID: 960 Posts: View All Phil@Tyalgum's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 26th February 2010 8:05am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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Grubs says... Well sorry but I still dont "get it". If the wikipedia page says "All Hass avocado trees have been grown from seeds (or were grafted from the cuttings) of a single tree which was grown from a seed purchased in 1926 from A. R. Rideout of Whittier, California" Then I dont see how seeds from a Hass avocado can grow into anything else! If it were grafted - the seed would still produce the fruiting plant...albeit perhaps with inferior roots (wouldn't it??). I'm not doubting your experience Brendan... just head scratching! | About the Author Grubs Melbourne 26th February 2010 11:26pm #UserID: 3334 Posts: |
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Brendan says... Hi Grubs, I think wikipedia means, "all the Hass grown from seed, were from seeds *that came out of* the seedling trees (fruit) Mr Rideout grew from the one Hass seed."? And as they say, "or were grafted from cuttings", from the true Hass seedling trees. Phil tells us 'seeds' have two parents. I will add, unless they come from a seedling tree. For some reason, it's only the seeds from the grafted trees, that have two parents? (I think :-) It is confusing, I agree. | About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 27th February 2010 8:51am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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Jason says... Hass in South West Victoria (colder than Melbourne), I've been trying my very best to explain that you want to be growing a type A tree in Victoria and mostly a Hass but not many seem to listen. Anyway picture proof :) Complete picture of the tree http://img.skitch.com/20100510-58wb3915nyw22x5fpq9t4ahqp.jpg
| About the Author Jason Portland. Vic 14th May 2010 1:54am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Phil@Tyalgum Murwillumbah 14th May 2010 5:14am #UserID: 960 Posts: View All Phil@Tyalgum's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Jantina Mt. Gambier S.A. 14th May 2010 11:11am #UserID: 1351 Posts: |
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Jason says... Phil, thanks, it's a pretty good one, what I really want is a Reed tree in similar health but never seem to be able to get a good one going (yet). Hi Jantina, sure I still don't have one. I have a a couple spare bananas in pots still. You'll have to come over for some bit's of trees if you want to do some grafting in Winter/Spring too. I also have a heap of sapotes almost ripe if you want seeds of those? | About the Author Jason Portland. Vic 15th May 2010 8:59am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Jantina says... Thanks Jason I would be very happy to get those sapote seeds, the bananas and some grafting material when the time is right.I did ring the phone no. you gave me last time but a lady answered and said she'd never heard of you. I have two different sorts of lucuma. If you want email me at jantinarohde at activ8 dot net dot au to make arrangements. By the way, I have a Reed growing well here. Got it from Bunnings of all places but it was so healthy looking I couldn't resist. | About the Author Jantina Mt. Gambier S.A. 15th May 2010 11:16am #UserID: 1351 Posts: |
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Matt says... Jason, Your tree looks fantastic. Looks healthy and really good looking fruit. If you don't mind posting, I would be really keen to know what type of regiment you have got it on for pest control and what type of fertiliser you are using, if any. Also how did you propagate and did you use a root stock? Love the tree and thanks in advance. Matt. | About the Author Matt Prahran, VIC 22nd June 2010 4:15pm #UserID: 3385 Posts: |
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| About the Author Nick Altona VIC 4th July 2010 5:43pm #UserID: 2663 Posts: |
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Jason says... Matt, sorry I missed this. That Hass tree is grafted onto a Zutano seed (I bought from commerical stock already gafted) I have other trees I've grafted using various seed which grow well but most of the plants I've got from commercial suppliers are on Zutano seedlings for whatever reason, just tradition I think rather than any advantage. I haven't done anything for pests, there's no Avocado pests here apart from some grub that eats holes in the leaves in Spring but not enough to be of any worry. Each spring I skim the grass off the dirt out to the drip line and throw it under the tree and fertilize it, any small sticks I find around the place get thrown under there also. For the fist 6 years (that tree is about 7 years old) I fertilized it with chicken manure only, not every year but for most of them. Then last year I started using a 3-2-1 chemical fertiliser from Pivot which is making bigger fruit and more growth but it remains to be seen if they will taste as good :). However it's lots cheaper than manure so that's what I'll be using from now on, at least until the trees are large enough to properly self mulch and generally look after themselves a bit better. Nick it should be pretty easy to find some Avocado wood in Melbourne, there's thousands of Avocado trees there. But they are not all that easy to graft, I don't think most people manage much better than 50% first time out | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 5th July 2010 2:51am #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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Jason says... Today I found an old video I had from some Avocados I grafted in 2003, I've uploaded it. Hopefully you can see the shapes I cut them (tried a few but they all worked) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7G5puVXa8M | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 17th July 2010 8:15pm #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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| About the Author J Belgrave, VIC 19th July 2010 8:34am #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... I don't think it makes much difference here really but since the Guatemalan trees seem to have a growing advantage in "cool" (not cold) climates then maybe they have some small advantage. Still the commercial orchards around Mildura in Northern Vic and Southern NSW that are not using clonal rootstocks do use Mexican seed for rootstocks | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 20th July 2010 4:34am #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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| About the Author Nick Altona, VIC 20th July 2010 6:05pm #UserID: 2663 Posts: |
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| About the Author J Belgrave, VIC 20th July 2010 7:37pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... Nick there's a picture of my Hass tree in full in this thread with a plastic chair in front of it for size comparison. It's about 7-8 years old in the far South of Victoria. This is the link http://img.skitch.com/20100510-58wb3915nyw22x5fpq9t4ahqp.jpg ^ You could keep the tree at that height if you wanted to prune it say 1/4 of the tree each year or so. I haven't pruned mine since there's room there for it to grow as big as it wants to be. Don't let anyone tell you Hass is no good for Victoria, I've tried at least 10 varieties and that's clearly the best tree I have. You need to wait until at least October and maybe better November+ to graft an Avocado in Victoria so you have plenty of time yet | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 21st July 2010 3:07am #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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| About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 21st July 2010 6:56am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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J says... Jason, that's a good looking tree and just the right size imho. I've done some more reading and avocado roots are meant to be quite invasive and can choke out other trees. I plan on planting trees about 3 to 4 metres apart. Have any of your trees nearby been affected by your hass? They seem pretty groovy in the pic. | About the Author J Belgrave, VIC 22nd July 2010 10:58am #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... Brendan there's ripe fruit on the tree in that picture but most of the exposed fruit you can see are the fruit higher up on the branches and are next years crop. Because it takes around 18 months on the tree to grow a Hass fruit here, you have two crops on the tree at all times, they are ripe around March-April and hang over Winter and slowly turn black until September, they they will start droping and there wont be any of the current years crop left after maybe October. Right now they have slightly split seeds and are about perfect maturity wise. I have the opinion the colder it is and the longer you can keep an Avocado on the tree before it's ripe the better it tastes, much like grapes :). That's how it seems to be anyway, I've tasted Hass all around the place and they taste best in Southern Victoria and up realllllly high in the mountains in Mexico. I am able to eat all the Avocados on that tree myself if I eat 2 or 3 a day, which I do most days :). Once that tree is done the Mexican varieties are almost ripe, I get a month Avocado fruit rest up before hand but the crops almost line up. Then I get another Avocado rest from February to March-April but that's prime Stone fruit time so really I don't want any Avocados during that time. J, that's a Macadamia tree right beside the Avocado of very similar size and there seems no competition between them. Avocado roots are all within 6 inches of the surface and you can bring them up right to surface level with a heavy sticks kind of mulch. Not many other trees have roots so close to the surface, so I don't think there's any real problem with root competition. I have two rows of Avocados about 4 meters apart over the other side of the garden, actually right smack in the middle of a established stone fruit orchard. That happened because my Father didn't think I would be able to grow them so we planted them in there for some shelter :0, now they tower over the other trees that get pruned to a nestable height. I like how Hass looks because the tree is kinda a round dense shape, the upright ones look a bit straggly | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 23rd July 2010 3:04am #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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allybanana says... Nick if you want grafting wood I just collected some, according to the CSIRO grafting book end of July is the best time to collect wood as starch content is at its highest just before it starts its growth. Then store in fridge until rootstock growth starts, budding is done later as mentioned above, I collected fuerte and bacon wood from my friends orchard the bacon is already undergoing bud growth so it might be a bit late but try anyway. My friends fuerte is a good self pollinator and good fruiter and handles the frost, but fruit is a bit bumpy so maybe it was mislabelled and is in fact a Hass. Any way if you want some wood I can send you some. I wouldn’t mind some Fuji or pink lady apple wood or other reasonably low chill apple wood. If you can get nashi other than 20 century I would also be interested. My Email address allydalton.sculpture@Gmail.com cheers ally | About the Author allybanana Eden 23rd July 2010 11:38pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Nick says... That sounds good allybanana. I don't want to disappoint you but I don't have a clue what type of apple I have but it is a quite old tree (20 or so y.o) and flowers heavily so I consequently have tonnes of wood. Also what are Nashis? I've also just remembered I can give you plum (heavy bearer, great fruit) or pear wood. | About the Author Nick Altona, VIC 24th July 2010 6:20pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jason says... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHOrR0OE6eE I've had a productive day, didn't quite have the settings on the camera right but anyway! it's kinda ok in 720p HD. I'll be uploading more as the night goes on, just so people can get in idea of the fruiting and flowering progress of various trees at this time of year. And just how each tree looks in general | About the Author Jason Portland 24th July 2010 6:47pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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| About the Author Phil@Tyalgum Murwillumbah 24th July 2010 7:02pm #UserID: 960 Posts: View All Phil@Tyalgum's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Jason says... That ones about 9 years old, it's taller than it appears in the video. MIght be 12 feet tall or something like that, maybe more?. I'm not sure :). Still that's about 3 years worth for you :). This is the first big crop it's had, some years it will have hardly any, where Hass has a big crop every year without fail, that's one of the reasons why I like it better. I'm uploading a video of Rincon now. I filmed a fair bit of stuff today, a lot of things aren't in real good form during Winter but it'll be good to compare them later on | About the Author Jason Portland 24th July 2010 7:19pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 24th July 2010 7:59pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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| About the Author Brad Como, Perth 24th July 2010 8:52pm #UserID: 2323 Posts: View All Brad's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 24th July 2010 9:45pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jason says... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRCBchxz0yQ There's the Hass tree, I think I'll re film the other trees later now that I have the camera more sorted | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 24th July 2010 11:10pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Dave says... Great videos Jason, good to see advocado doing so well in Melbourne. I just bought a few seedlings from diggers; 2 hass, a wurtz and bacon. When do you think is the optimum time to put them in the ground? They are sitting in my greenhouse at the moment, just worried the winter cold might get to them at the moment | About the Author Dave The Dandenongs, Vic 3rd August 2010 11:15pm #UserID: 4019 Posts: |
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Jason says... Dave the cold wont hurt them even when tiny unless your seeing below 0c. Probably aim to plant them any time after August 15th. But once you reach that date the soon the better, the faster the roots can develop in the first season in the ground the better. My trees are growing over in the South West of Victoria, it's about 3c colder overnight than inner Melbourne on average. But comparable to most towns well outside the city | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 4th August 2010 2:13am #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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Dave says... Thanks Jason, good info. That sounds about right for my block...we are on a sloping orchard and the frost settles on the lower area where I've put my apples, pears and plums, the higher part is where I'm planting my evergreens including the advocado, it has a few nice size trees so it is quite well protected and has a slightly warmer micro climate. We have great soil up here so interested to see how quickly they grow. | About the Author Dave The Dandenongs, Vic 4th August 2010 10:13am #UserID: 4019 Posts: |
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J says... Dave, I see you are in the dandenongs. How do you stop the possums from eating all your plums, pears etc? Any tips? Jason, I'll be picking up a Hass and Fuerto in two weeks based on your recommendations. I was going to wait till september till I put them in but I might put them in straight way based again on your recommedations. | About the Author J Belgrave, VIC 4th August 2010 12:36pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Dave says... Hey J, yeah we get some great wildlife up here and thats why I live up here also but they also love the fruit. We have possums like you said, also rats who eat dropped fruit mostly, fruit bats occassionally that can devour a whole tree of fruit in a night, birds birds birds of every variety, wallabies, echidnas, and more. I am still learning what methods work best in terms of keeping them out but I have found star pickets stuck in the ground past the dripline then place some polyprop or irrigation pipe over the pickets joining one end to one picket then place over tree to meet the star picket on other side of tree. They cross over and then you can loosely tie them in place if you like. Then I put my netting over the top which is clear of all foliage by as much as possible (usually around 30-50cm) and drape it to the ground. From here you can place anything to hold it firmly taut to the ground, I use bend wire stakes as they are cheap to make from left over fencing wire, you can use rocks, wood, tent pegs, etc but make sure its strong enough to withstand critters pushing into it. Also another note, is research netting before just buying from anywhere, I have a great local supplier who buys a quality New Zealand made net, some nets just break too easily. This method has worked on most of my trees so far but bigger trees you'll have to use other methods, also if you have a big orchard you will benefit from investing in a good netting setup, pine posting at ends of each row with wire joined at top is a good start to drape netting, these days growers have a netting roof over their whole orchard (expensive though!) | About the Author Dave The Dandenongs, Vic 4th August 2010 2:15pm #UserID: 4019 Posts: |
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Jason says... We have an enormous amount of parrots here so in order to get any fruit at all we need to net every tree, which we do. Bush rats eat fallen fruit but there's no or next to no possums. Have a few issues with kangaroos eating leaves that are not above 6 feet tall but apart from that, no problems with animals. There'a few rabbits around but they aren't problem once the trees are over a couple feet tall and certainly do no damage compared to a kangaroo anyway. Still it's much better to have Kangaroos jumping around and the odd leaf stripped Avocado tree than no Kangaroos :). Dave, don't plant anything evergreen that needs lots of water over summer too far up the slope if it gets dryer up there in Summer than down low, I'd put them as far down as you can where is stays above 0c. Water ends up far more important than shelter or cold nights, trust me on that since I already made that mistake :). Fair enough if the bottom of your block is seeing -5c in Winter but if it's only 0c or even -2 I'd plant the Avocados lower than you have planned. Bananas, Babaco and sensitive stuff like that plant where there's zero chance of below 0c | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 5th August 2010 4:13am #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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| About the Author J Belgrave, VIC 5th August 2010 12:10pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... Birds can't eat Avocado (it kills them) they seem to know that and don't even attempt it. Ring eyes eat White sapotes but only once they are super ripe (after you would have picked them if you were going to), ring eyes also eat mandarins, parrots don't eat white sapote or mandarins but they love all the more common fruits that they know about. If your growing an unusual fruit it normally takes them a year or two to figure out that it's edible or that the flowers are. However once they figure it out they never forget and teach the rest of them :). In the last few years the parrots figure out they could get nectar from inside apricot flowers, so none of the flowers have actually stayed on the tree long enough to pollinate. Which is a pain because they never used to eat Apricots. The only way around this is to keep enough Apples over Winter to make a sacrifice to the great parrot gods to keep them occupied while the Apricots flower :) Nothing eats Cherimoya since you pick them hard and they have thick skin etc. In any case once the trees start producing and you live in a rural area you will need nets. Unless you only grow Avocados :) | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 5th August 2010 2:16pm #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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| About the Author J Belgrave, VIC 5th August 2010 3:19pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Dave says... Hey J, here is the link to the supplier I use, the site has a few pics of different methods I was talking about too: http://www.monbulkrural.com.au/Bird_net.htm Jason, thanks for the info, so many considerations on placement : ) water, wind, temp, frost, etc ..fun to balance all these things (I mean it, like the challenge) I'm putting in some gravity fed tanks higher up the slope (the water is pumped from the large dam at the bottom of my neighbours property which is great) and going to dripfeed when needed. Also, the White Sapote - would that sit well beside the advos and if so how close do you think it could go beside it? considering roots and such, thoughts? | About the Author Dave The Dandenongs, Vic 5th August 2010 3:26pm #UserID: 4019 Posts: |
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| About the Author J Belgrave, VIC 5th August 2010 9:43pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... Dave, I always wanted to try growing a fast growing wattle at 1x1 meter all over a property then cut out 5 meter circles every time I wanted to plant a tree :), that would have cured just about any establishment problem anyone could have. But failing that planting them pretty close together is probably the best bet. Originally spaced mine at 5 meters but it takes so long to get them to join together and shade out the grass, really it's a waist of time. Next time I'd plant them closer and cut out any extras, or just let the strongest survive etc | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 6th August 2010 8:41am #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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| About the Author Rob Box Hill Melb. 10th August 2010 6:39am #UserID: 3687 Posts: |
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Jason says... Rob, I'm not in Melbourne but anything that grows here will be easier in Melbourne. I have both Wurtz and Gwen doing ok, they are both naturally small trees so don't grow as vigorously as most varieties. Every year since I've had the Wurtz Kangaroos have stripped all it's leaves off (100%) so it's still tiny but it does grow well in between the times they eat all the leaves :). I probably should put a guard around it but since I have enough Avocados to eat now I don't worry too much about that | About the Author Jason Portland, Vic 10th August 2010 10:22am #UserID: 3853 Posts: |
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| About the Author Rob Torquay 14th August 2010 2:04pm #UserID: 3961 Posts: |
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J says... Rob, I picked up a Gwen and Fuerte at Sheperds Nursery at Hastings. http://www.aussieweb.com.au/business/shepherds+nurseries/1902884/ There's a nice dude that runs the place. They had wurtz, rincon, sharwil, fuerte, bacon and Some hass, but the hass did not look very healthy. Which is why I ended up getting the gwen. I didn't realise the gwen wasn't a big tree (mines about a meter tall). Jason, will the gwen be ok to pollinate the Fuerte and vice-versa? How is your gwen going? Is it fruiting yet? | About the Author J Belgrave, VIC 14th August 2010 6:34pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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| About the Author j 21st October 2010 9:16am #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... Gwen does that, It'll set fruit at any size and I did pull the flowers and fruit off mine for a year or two. I would be pulling it off in the interests of not dwarfing the tree because it takes a lot of energy to make an avocado. Better to buy 5 avocados this year instead in the interest of not having to buy them in the future :). The kangaroos ate most of the leaves and small branches on my Gwen the other day but not enough to really harm the tree. Just enough to make it look like one big near leafless avocado flower :p. I'm guessing your Fuerte is flowering right now also? or didn't it flower this year (they take a while to get going). Also if you can make it a bit loose on the stake otherwise it wont learn to harden up | About the Author Jason Portland 21st October 2010 12:44pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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j says... Ok, Jason I will pluck the flowers off later this week. And thanks for tip about the loosening it on the stake. Its tied quite firmly on! My Fuerte has dropped some of its larger leaves and is poping out new leaves now but no flowers that I can tell. I picked up a Hass from daleys because I had some room in my last order. Its just under a foot tall and I hope it does well here. No leaves dropped but now new leaves seem to be forming either. I'm kinda kicking myself that I didn't wait and find a bigger hass here locally. I was at an whole sale nursery the other day I saw a Hass about three times bigger than mine. it was almost 1 meter and half tall! | About the Author j 21st October 2010 2:41pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 21st October 2010 6:50pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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j says... Well that's good news for my avocado's. My gwen's leaves are a little bit yellowish/Light green, is that normal? Also about smaller tree's being a better than bigger ones; that's a bit worrying in regards to my 2 pike and vista white sapotes. They're 2 years old.. but they've survived this winter and are growing new leaves. The rest of my trees where all bought when they were young. | About the Author j 21st October 2010 7:56pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... I've had sapotes about 2.5 or even 3 foot tall from Perrys that have gone on to grow well, but those were really high quality well grown trees in deep plastic bags, but still they are outgrown x2 by trees I've planted in the ground straight after germinating and then grafted them while in the ground but it's much more important with Avocados, it's really hard to get them to go again once they have been restricted. Sapotes are more like weeds, very tough trees. Gwen should be dropping leaves anytime soon so it will be drawing the nutrients out of them and making them turn yellow. With the sapotes keep an eye on the leaves and size the leaves grow to, maybe take a picture of them once the leaves are full size with a ruler and I'll tell you if you need more nitrogen on them or not. With the Avocados I gauge the fertiliser by the length of the flower stems once the fruit has set and grown. For years I had hass fruit on short stems and couldn't figure out why the stems on commercial orchards of Hass were so long. Seems I just needed more juice on them. This current crop of Hass are already the same size as the crop I just ate and they still have 6 months before they will be ready to pick | About the Author Jason Portland 21st October 2010 8:59pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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j says... Jason, one day I'll get to the stage where I will be able to graft my own stuff but that day ain't here yet, so all the info you are providing me with is solid gold. I'm hoping my gwen, fuerte and hass get a good size before next winter. I'll be getting some shade cloth for summer. As far as my gwen flowering, I'm morbidly curious to see if the gwen will set any fruit without a pollinator, and if it does I'll abort em. But if I was to pluck the flowers off, is there any correct or incorrect way to do that, or is it just like citrus: Pluck away? | About the Author j 21st October 2010 9:55pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... I just break most of the flower stem off, the rest soon falls away. I'm also interested to see if it sets fruit by itself. I expect it will, but mine as always had a type B tree nearby so I can't be 100% sure. Have you got some mulch around the Avocados? if you can run some that's fairly rich in goodness out to a couple/few feet past the drip line they will grow pretty quick. If I can't get mulch around mine I put the fertiliser just past the drip line then when that grass booms I cut it out pull it out and use that for mulch. Running like an ever expanding moat around the end of the layer of dropped leaves, that helps hold the leaves under the tree rather than blow away, then it self mulches out to a point. The roots on the avocados are so shallow pulling up grass tends to pull up Avocado roots with it, just a good example of why you want mulch on them really :). My Hass tree that's doing really well gets the grass mulch moat theory ^ and a few sticks thrown under there for good messure | About the Author Jason Portland 22nd October 2010 11:24am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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j says... I've just gotten some 2 square metres of bush mulch delivered and am in the process of spreading it around the back yard. It's essentially the bush ground up. Cheap stuff, but a mixture of fine and chunky material, which I've read is the best way to go. I will put some around the avo's (and all my other trees) shortly. Yes, I think I might leave the flowers on the gwen and see if they form some fruit and then pluck everything off. | About the Author j 22nd October 2010 11:37am #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 22nd October 2010 11:40am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Brendan says... Hi Jason & J, They call that stuff 'forest mulch' here, It is good (& cheap), but I reckon it comes with it's own built in Termites! I might be wrong, as I do have termites here :-( Every time I get some, it's not long before it's full of termites, which is ok I suppose, as they help it to break down. | About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 23rd October 2010 8:01am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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amanda says... Hi J, I use this mulch extensively and have found that it makes my sand more water repellant. It's good but what type of soil do u have? I imagine it would be ok on clay. Mine is from Hwy trimmings etc and mostly Eucalypt and Acacia. It's fine around my native gardens - but around the fruit trees it needs to have a constant nitrogen source, to avoid nitrogen draw down, as it decomposes. Which can be a very long time in a dry zone. Not saying don't use it - but keep and eye on it around your fruit trees maybe. | About the Author amanda Geraldton Mid West WA 23rd October 2010 12:34pm #UserID: 2309 Posts: View All amanda's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Jason says... Brendan we have _billions_ of termites flying all around, thick in the sky sometimes, I was just watching the bats eat them as they took off the other night actually. But since they are everywhere naturally it wont matter if they are also in the mulch. Steel framed houses are popular here near the bush, for this reason and being a bit more fire proofed | About the Author Jason Portland 23rd October 2010 3:40pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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j says... Amanda, my soil here is dark rich heavy mountain soil which is acidic. I'm pretty much using this mulch on my fruit trees. This area is a bit cooler than melbourne and fairly wet/moist most of the time, except for summer. Haven't noticed any termites in the mulch, but there is always termites around these parts. As I said before I got this mulch because it was cheap and it had the right mixture of chunky and fine material. There's an element of recycling when using this stuff and that makes my inner hippie happy. | About the Author j 24th October 2010 12:54pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jon says... Wow this thread has grown since last year. Martin, I got my Gwen from Sunraysia Nurseries who also deliver. 03 50248643 is theur number. I have had some probmels with my trees lately and I'm hoping someone will know what it is. 1. My trees have cankers on the trunks. 2. There are some black spots on the branches. 3. The leaves have had holes appearing in them, with little brown dead spots forming before falling out. 4. I'm not sure if the roots appear healthy. Some seem reddy orange, some seem white and some black. I've uploaded some photos in the next few posts so hopefully someone knows what's going on. We've had heavy rain recently but the soil is pretty sandy and I've used a little groundbreaker in the past. I don't fertilise it but I have put a little little bit of horse manure on previously. Is this bad? Thanks, Jon
| About the Author Jon Melbourne's East 24th October 2010 1:28pm #UserID: 4459 Posts: View All Jon's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne's East 24th October 2010 1:31pm #UserID: 4459 Posts: View All Jon's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 24th October 2010 1:41pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne's East 24th October 2010 1:45pm #UserID: 4459 Posts: View All Jon's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Jason says... Those holes will heal up pretty fast, the leaves look fine. You can give it some fertiliser and mulch, with avocados when they are growing very fast they get a kind of blocky shaped new growth with spots on it, that's what you want to aim for. I'll try and get a picture of that in a few weeks once mine are finished flowering and get into full new growth mode | About the Author Jason Portland 24th October 2010 7:21pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jon Melbourne's East 30th October 2010 10:38am #UserID: 4459 Posts: View All Jon's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 30th October 2010 12:00pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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j says... I was in Monbulk today and saw an 8 year old ten foot tall Fuerte that was busy flowering and a Slightly smaller hass that had flowered and fruited. Monbulk's a bit higher than where I am and apparently they usually get 1 day of snow a year, so those avocado's have survived snow as well. Pretty impressive. | About the Author j 30th October 2010 8:53pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Dave says... I'm living just outside of monbulk J...the advocados I planted end of winter have been going great. The last few weeks they have put on lots of new growth. They are in a good sheltered sloping spot which gets little frost to no frost. We do get snow usually once a year, none as yet for this year, but hey it snowed at Christmas time a few years back if you remember so it still may happen. A few of my neighbours have advocado and they do ok too. Well this rain today has been great, prolly won't need to water the orchard for at least a month looking at the forecast. Looks like the catchments will finally get over 50% capacity, been a long time since they were above this mark! | About the Author Dave Dandenongs 30th October 2010 11:43pm #UserID: 4019 Posts: |
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j says... well that's also good to hear, dave. I planted my gwen, fuerte and hass on a fairly uncertain hope that they would survive, but seeing/reading about all these other trees near by doing well, well that's great. Dave, how much new growth has your fuerte formed? Full new leaves or just little leaflets popping out? | About the Author j 31st October 2010 4:50pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Dave says... J, The varieties I planted were Bacon, Wurtz and Hass and two of each for now. I also have a few seedling advocados that are between 3-5 years but not fruiting yet. The Bacon and Wurtz seem to be the best growing ones so far for me and have put on full sets of large leaves. The Hass are doing well too but smaller 2 inch leaves so far, one is putting out lots of flowers. They are on a north west facing slope on the edge of some euca. forest so they get good sun and shelter. On another note the rest of the fruit trees have stacks of fruit this year, every flower must have been pollinated, especially the old cherry, pear and apple trees. | About the Author Dave Dandenongs 1st November 2010 2:26pm #UserID: 4019 Posts: |
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| About the Author j 1st November 2010 8:09pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Dave says... Yes I have trained the possums to harvest the fruit for us and drop them at the fruit door, they get to eat some as their reward. Really the possums and birds do get a bit, but we net a few quite well so they don't get those, a couple of the large cherries and one of the pears I have cut down to a manageable size so they are easily netted, the trick is I found was to keep the netting at least a foot away from any foliage/fruit and keep netting quite taut (with good quality netting) using a framework underneath of polyprop. crossing over the trees. I remember the cherry tree without netting last year that had a full load of cherries that the possums devoured but they left me one ripe cherry, yes only one that was hidden between a couple of well placed leaves, but it was sweet to find it! | About the Author Dave Dandenongs 1st November 2010 10:30pm #UserID: 4019 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 2nd November 2010 12:32pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Jason says... I just wanted to write in here before I forget. A while ago I noticed in some healthy commercial orchard than the length of stems on the fruit on Hass was muuuuch longer then they were on my tree, since then for the last couple of years I've been slowly sneaking up on my good Hass tree with more nitrogen and the entire tree is getting stronger but I'm using the length of stem on the fruit to gauge where I'm at. Three years ago I had stems about....3 inched long at best case. Last years crop was maybe 4, the current crop 4-6. Next years crop has also set (massive crop btw in the order of hundreds of fruit) and I've got stems on the fruit up to 8 inches, that's about the same as the commercial tree I was using as a gauge so I think I'll try and maintain the tree just as it is now. I should be making a video about this tomorrow anyway and how I'm looking after this tree | About the Author Jason Portland 27th December 2010 2:36am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 27th December 2010 8:30am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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| About the Author Evo 27th December 2010 10:05am #UserID: 349 Posts: View All Evo's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Jason says... Brendan, no reason, it's just a gauge/measure for me to see the overall health of the tree :). Seems a more accurate way of telling rather than seeing the leaves which have been looking fine for years. I could wait and see how much it grows during a year but looking at the stems lets me see what's going on earlier in the season. I'm on 2 feet of growth so far since it's flowered in Octoberish, it's been an amazing Spring/Sumnmer for rain so far, easily the best in the last 10 years so I'm expecting some records in growth this year on everything :). Evo, good job on the Hass, the Fuerte might take a bit longer to fruit | About the Author Jason Portland 27th December 2010 10:44pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Andrew Mt Clay 3rd January 2011 9:07pm #UserID: 4737 Posts: |
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Wayne says... Am currently growing about a dozen avocado trees in southern victoria , and had a couple of questions for Jason (or anyone else) What is your favourite fertilizer and how often do you apply ? and what is your preferred rootstock for new plants. I'm growing bacon hass and reed at the moment , I notice no-one mentions reed much - they have been the most productive of the 3 so far and seem to do very well in our climate - very healthy and hardy trees | About the Author Wayne Island 11th January 2011 12:33pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jason says... Hi Wayne I have two small Reed trees and currently grafting over some seedlings to Reed (just did one yesterday actually). It does just as well as Hass being a similar kind of tree but I hadn't had a good tree until recently (it's a type A Guatemalan so just what you want for Southern VIC) but it is likely to grow taller. Earlier on I wasn't sure if I liked the fruit from Reed because it can be sometimes a bit under ripe in the shops but I've decided I like it now. I use fertilizer with about 20% nitrogen sprinkled around the drip line, citrus food basically I put it a little before flowering, then don't again until the fruit is set and stuck, then continue to feed them once each couple of months until the last growth flush then I stop for Winter, I try and gauge it from how the tree looks, if it's got a heavy crop and the fruit aren't sizing up at the times they should be I'll add more to compensate. I'm using anything for root stocks there doesn't seem to be seeds from any of the trees having a growth advantage that I can notice yet | About the Author Jason Portland 12th January 2011 10:12am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Wayne says... Thanks for that - all good info. I have 2 hass atm that have been slower in developing than the Reed and Bacon(I was worried they werent suited to Vic) , but seeing your trees I'm going to put a few more in - maybe I havent been feeding them enough - mainly been using horse manure. Both trees have got a nice looking crop for next year. Good luck with the Reed - ours are doing very well - massive fruit and pretty heavy cropping. I notice in several places Reed are called a small tree , they are in fact quite tall. | About the Author Wayne ISland 12th January 2011 10:33am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jason says... Yes Reed is supposed to be a much taller tree than Hass, I'd say something more like Bacon. I wouldn't give up on a variety growth wise just because two trees didn't grow as fast. It's like my Reed trees, I just wasn't lucky enough to get a good one. I have a few Hass trees and only one grows like a freak. Sometimes it goes like that you just have to put a heap in and you end up with a few good ones. If you are going to graft some yourself now then that makes it an almost zero cost thing to put a heap in and keep the good ones. I really like the fruit on Bacon and it's good to have Avocados now in the Summer but the length of season on them (short) and the fact that I have 4 or 5? good Bacon trees and the similar Ryan tree which is also good AND a good and one soon to be good Fuerte trees. It means I can't eat them all. So I've been really wanting a good Reed tree for years and years, the first one I bought didn't grow hardly at all, second one was even worse. But now 8? 9? years later the first one has decided to grow. I'm pretty happy about that :). I guess I also have about 12 or maybe 14ish Avocado trees that are winners, and a few duds laying around in the grass. I lost quite a few small ones during a couple of very dry years a while ago. My Hass is up to about 2 feet in growth so far this year and is carrying hundreds of small fruit for the next next crop. I made a video of it today, I might be able to upload it tomorrow. I have one fairly large tree that was a mislabeled Zutano, in fact I think a seedling got in the scion bucket at that nursery somehow, anyway it doesn't pollinate at all (seedless tiny fruit) so I'm going to try and graft that entire tree to Reed. I've been planing to do that for a few years, But I've not had a healthy enough Reed tree to get the wood. The unknown tree is about.....20 foot? so I think once I cut it back and graft it it should regrow pretty quickly. I'm not very confidant to do that kind of graft but I have to give it a go. Before I was using chemical fertiliser I was using chicken manure on them and a fair bit of it. I think everyone in Southern Vic should be growing Avocados, I rekcon 90% of my nutrition comes from Avocado's since I eat 2 or 3 everyday almost all year so it's a bit of an experiment if over eating them is bad long term :0 My father has high blood pressure (he doesn't eat them:P) so I check mine regularly, it's always 105/70 so I'm doing ok so far (at 39, almost 40) | About the Author Jason 12th January 2011 9:14pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Wayne says... its odd isnt it - I have 2 Reed that I planted next to each other 3 years ago - one is 6-8 ft tall with massive growth - and the other one doesn't look like its grown more than 4 inches since it was planted.(I'm just about to pull it out and give up on it) yes the older reeds are about the same height as the bacons (about 10-12 ft ) at 6 yrs old approx. That hot summer 3 years ago (when it was 42+ for 3 or 4 consecutive days ), most of our fruit dropped off - I had been watering them - but they still dropped. We are down at Phillip Island - so our climate is probably very similar to yours there in Portland - one of the bonuses of being near the coast is we dont have to worry about frost. Do you shadecloth the seedlings in summer - or paint the trunks at all ? | About the Author Wayne Island 13th January 2011 1:41pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jason says... The first lot I planted were protected, but I don't bother any more, I might weave some long grass down the wire guards if I get excited but that's about it. I have a lot of resident Kangaroos at the moment (last couple of years) so the days of very small plants that kangaroos like to eat (avocados are one) and expecting them to grow are about done for now :). I'd say the climates would be pretty close, both being almost totally marine influenced, it makes things grow heaps slower but safer :). 20km further inland and it's consistently anywhere from 4c to 10c warmer than my garden but it also can get down to minus 4 or 5 during Winter that far inland. I had a strange night tonight standing on a ladder picking Bacon avocados in the pouring rain but it was so warm it was pretty much a shower, had no choice because the fruit are just growing too fast with all this rain and heat and they are starting to split and drop at a pretty rapid rate (as I was picking them even). I picked a little over 100 fruit from 3 trees, that was most of the remaining crop that I hadn't eaten this year. I've left about 50 of the smaller sized fruit on one tree I guess just to see what will happen and give me some fresh avocados for the next few weeks (I hope). I'm going to attempt to make these 100 bigger ones into pulp and freeze them. I was meaning to ask you what time of the year is the Reed ripe and how long does it hang on? Mine has a few fruit on it now but I'll be waiting 18 months to find out :). From the size they are now I expect it's a month later than Hass on both counts? so say you can pick them June to October? would that be true? I'm expecting everything to grow faster than I've ever seen it before during the next month because I've never seen the ground this wet during Summer or even anything close to it. Sometimes I'm buying water from a truck by now yet this year the tank is overflowing | About the Author Jason Portland 14th January 2011 4:26am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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wayne says... Well the ripening part is something I was going to ask you about actually. I suspect we have been too impatient and have been eating most of them earlier than you. We pretty much had the bacons through nov and december. and started picking a couple of reed in late december/to now. The bacons were definitely good to go then though - as a few were dropping , and they were a little bit soft on the tree in november The Reed fruit are very large ( probably twice as heavy as the hass) . and the ones we have picked have softened in about 7 days. but they do show that a slight wrinkling of the skin when they soften - so I imagine I'll leave it for another month or two before I pick any more. They taste fine now though - even being early like that. the other interesting thing about reed is you can cut one and put it in the fridge and they don't really go brown like other varieties. the growing conditions have been insane here for the past few months - we have about 80 fruit trees including the avo's and the orchard has never looked healthier - the trees are loving it | About the Author wayne Island 14th January 2011 9:40am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jason says... Oh really, Reed and the other Guatemalan Avocados like Hass should be a Winter fruit in your climate for sure, it is in New Zealand along with Hass and Lamb Hass (which is really late). I don't go near picking a Hass for 18 months after pollination, at least and that's picking them pretty early and not at the ideal flavour. If the seed coat isn't dark and wont easily separate from the seed then the fruit isn't fully ripe. After the fruit and seed coat are fully developed the seed will crack open and the root start to grow through (Most of my Bacons are at this stage now), the fruit wont actually drop most of the time until the root is just about to break out of the skin or just as it breaks out, because they are evolved to hit the ground and grow right then and there. Hass wont start to grow roots here until maybe August 22 months, yep that's right Twenty Two months after pollination, I'd be really surprised if Reed didn't hang for that long also. I was picking Bacon in November also but they didn't get to full flavour/richness until late December. You could probably pick them even in October and still get "shop quality" Avocados but that's not the aim of the game when you are growing your own, you might be a little warmer than than me but it wouldn't be any more than few weeks or a month at the most worth of warmer | About the Author Jason Portland 14th January 2011 3:53pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Chris H says... Hi All, I've just read this thread end to end because I'm really trying to decide whether to take a punt and try and grow a couple (or more) of avocado trees in beautiful high, cold country Oberon. 1200 metres. Heat Zone 4. Cold Zone 8. We get frost any time of year and have had snow on both Xmas Day and New Year's Day. Plenty of space, very good soil and plenty of water. Winds can be pretty rough in Winter but I have good sheltered north-east facing areas. Temps do get down below zero on a regular basis throughout Winter. Minus 5 was the lowest last year. Maximums rarely go over 30. Am I on a hiding to nowhere? Or would planting trees each in their own heavy hessian-covered 'cubby house' 2x2x2 metres and open only facing north-east give them two or three years of growing time to get tough? After being here for 20 years and getting only two decent tomato crops off - and never capsicum or eggplant - I took a deep breath and invested in a glasshouse in Spring. The end result has been fantastic. (See pic) So, having solved the Summer vegie problem I'm now moving on to fruit tree challenges. Apples, pears, nashis do fine (except for this year when we got a -5 degree frost when they were in early bloom). Avocados are up there with citrus and stone fruit on my must-have list. It's beating the Spring frosts that's the real hard bit. But this is an avocado thread, not general vegie & fruit growing, so I shouldn't digress. Please, does anyone have any ideas for cold, high country avocado growing? Cheers Chris H
| About the Author Chris H Oberon NSW 16th January 2011 3:04pm #UserID: 4792 Posts: |
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Jason says... There are Avocados that could do it but it's just a matter of if you can get them in Australia. -8c is the limit for the most hardy of the Avocado so if you get below that it's going to be a bit hard. But you are going to have to go with varieties different to the ones that grow well on the coast. You will need pure breed Mexican strains like Zutano, Ettinger, Fuerte, maaaaaaybe Bacon but that one will be touch and go. Even better probably seedlings from parents like those. Still you wont be able to keep them at colder than -5c for an entire night, a few hours should be ok. Jackie French has good success with Avocados to the West? of Canberra, she's written that they get to -8c and does have a lot of fruit Avocados there (a lot of hers are seedlings I believe). Once you do get varieties that will survive the cold the next problem is having warm enough weather to pollinate them. Anyway if you do have plenty of space seedlings are going to be the way to go, they will be stronger and you'll have a good chance of getting a type A flowered Mexican avocado, which is ideally what you want. OR you could find someone that has adapted seedlings Avocados in a cool climate similar to yours and graft from those. You will need to start the Avocados inside something more hardy. I remember reading Jackie French saying hers come up from under overgrown stuff and she doesn't know they are there until the poke out already a few years old. Citrus, well Satsuma mandarin's will take pretty close to -10c I think? easily better than -5c anyway. You will need to plant all this stuff on a decent slope to keep the cold air running past them and not sitting still, I'm not sure how much cold the flowers can take but ideally you would want very late flowering varieties, Avocados can hold fruit for years so if the cold doesn't kill the fruit and if you have low heat and that makes them flower later. That will probably be a good thing :0 You will really be pushing the limits of the tree but I think it's close enough to be worth a shot | About the Author Jason Portland 16th January 2011 5:31pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Ral says... I just read this forum end to end also ... very interesting! I am very new to gardening to be honest but I have some questions about Hass Avocados - Can you plant a Hass avocado in isolation or do you need to plant it with another tree? - What is the smallest space you could grow a hass avocado? (I have limited garden space) - Can you hedge a hass avocado? - Are there dwarf hass avocado plants available? If so, where? (I am in Geelong) Thanks so much, and thanks for the abundance of information and knowledge everyone has shared so far! :) - | About the Author Ral Geelong 27th January 2011 9:50pm #UserID: 4842 Posts: |
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J says... Ral, Hass is a type A avocado and will need a type B near by for good fruit set (Bacon or fuerte varieties for example) In regards to all your questions about a dwarf hass, it almost sounds like you want a "gwen" variety which has Hass parentage, very similar fruit and is a much smaller tree compared to a hass. My gwen is growing really well and has even flowered within six months of me putting it in the ground. I recommend checking out sheppards nursery in hastings, who have plenty of different varieties (including Gwen). Maybe our resident avocado (and white sapote :) ) expert Jason could weigh in. | About the Author J upwey, Melbourne 27th January 2011 10:49pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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| About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 28th January 2011 9:28am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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Jason says... Ral, you can prune Avocado trees if you have too, I would think that's a better idea in Victoria rather than plant a dwarf since it's always a better idea to have the stronger tree in a marginal climate. If you prune just 1/4 or 1/3 of the tree at a time you will still get fruit on the rest of the tree. Most commercial orchards these days are high density plantings and they cut half the tree (down one row) then do the other side another year. Gwen will fruit pretty much as soon as you stick it in the ground but it sets so much fruit so easily that you have to spend time thinning the fruit or it just makes it even more of a dwarf tree than it already is. I had to pull about 50 fruit of a 6 foot Gwen tree the other day and it still looks like it's carrying a silly amount of fruit for it's size. Hass tends to be better at dropping excess fruit by itself. They are similar fruit but Hass is the better fruit than Gwen. If you are only planting one I'd choose the Hass tree for Geelong just to give you a bit of margin for error in getting it to grow strongly at least for a first Avocado tree. Right now my Hass tree is about.... 15 feet x 15 feet I guess and you could keep it at that size with pruning, mine has a Macadamia of that same side beside it that it's recently run into so it will have to grow a bit more upright from now on. I don't have a Lamb Hass so not sure how that grows but if it's semi-dwarf that could be a good one, I know it has excellent fruit. Another option is Reed which will take up much less room at ground level since it prefers to grow straight up. I'm not sure how well any of those set fruit without a pollinator since I've always had pollinators but I think they would be OK without one, maybe a bit smaller crop and smaller fruit. Talking about Sapotes I better go and water mine, they don't like this 40c stuff | About the Author Jason Portland 30th January 2011 8:04pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author helen croydon 1st February 2011 10:23pm #UserID: 4874 Posts: |
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| About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 5th February 2011 9:19am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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Jason says... Brendan, I have two but they are both only small, the larger of them has a couple fruit on it for the first time this year. Be a bit strange for your tree to flower at this time of year? I thought it would be at least a couple months away from starting to push flowers even up there. But its a good variety for sure. I have a seedling Avocado here, it was actually the first fruit tree I planted in my garden about 11 years ago. I planted it in a really high and dry spot though and it's struggled ever since slowly reaching about 8 feet in height last year. WIth this wet Summer it's just decided to EXPLODE in growth :D. It's done an extra 4 feet all over and showing no signs of wanted to slow down any time soon, really big strong rubbery red new growth all over it. Just goes to show most of the problem with growing things outside the subtropics is not lack of heat but lack of water over Summer. I'm a big fan of Summers like this now :) I'm really trying to make the most of it because this kind of weather might not happen again in my lifetime so I'm really try to look after everything doubly good this year to get some size into them while I can. I actually decided to stick another Hass tree in today, I would have preferred to put another Reed in but that graft failed :0 since one of the Hass grafts I did is pushing nicely now I'll just plant that | About the Author Jason Portland 5th February 2011 5:48pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Brendan says... Thanks Jason. Yeah, it could be just new buds on my Reed, and not flowers, so I'll keep an eye on it. I'm a bit of a Reed fan too, nice fruit and good size :-) Just read the tag that came with the tree, and it says fruiting age (for Reed) is 2 to 3 years, so I've got fingers crossed. | About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 6th February 2011 8:13am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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| About the Author Ral Geelong 17th February 2011 1:03pm #UserID: 4842 Posts: |
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| About the Author Dwain Melbourne 8th March 2011 11:19pm #UserID: 4975 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 9th March 2011 12:14pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Dwain Melbourne 11th March 2011 2:00am #UserID: 4975 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 11th March 2011 3:00am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Dany Canberra 15th March 2011 4:45pm #UserID: 3152 Posts: |
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| About the Author J Upwey, Victoria 15th March 2011 7:24pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... J, I'd leave the Gwen for a couple years to see how you go first. I have a lot of trouble with my Gwen tree over fruiting, I'm forever pulling fruit off it so the tree will still grow. It's only a 6 foot tall stick and sets way more than 100 fruit every year, I have to pull most of them off or it just wont do anything. I'd be much happier if it fruited less or even about the same as Hass which is still maybe a little too heavy and would be more ideal if you thinned some fruit out of it | About the Author Jason Portland 15th March 2011 11:25pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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J says... Fair enough. I'm tempted to get another gwen and alternate flowering & fruiting between the two every year. (I haven't experienced the whole TOO MUCH avocado scenario yet :) ) since I do have a fuerte and bacon nearby. A quick question about the bacon: in vic, how long should it take for a bacon to flower? I know fuerte can take 6 to 8 years. are bacons faster? | About the Author J Upwey, Victoria 16th March 2011 9:30am #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... Yeah Bacon is a bit faster. Fuerte is more temperature sensitive while flowering too, so it'll only have a good crop when you have some of those warm northerlies during Spring. Fuerte is a better pollinator and better fruit but Bacon is a more reliable fruiter. For those inside the city there's enough night time heat for Fuerte to be reliable. Most of the Type A's will set too much fruit at some stage and that sets them into the two year cycle (one year to recover) then another big crop. TOO MUCH avocados will happen at some stage, during one of those rain events in Summer the fruit on my Bacon trees was splitting, so I picked 120? which was most of the remainder of the crop. I couldn't even deal with making them all into pulp and freezing them before I got sick of it so most of them went rotten. The 8? kilos of pulp I do have frozen hasn't even been touched yet and Hass will be ready to start picking in another month,,,, then more Bacons etc. I doubt I'll ever get on top of it now since every year there's more and more of them | About the Author Jason Portland 16th March 2011 12:50pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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J says... I picked up another gwen & 1 rincon (about a metre and bit tall, healthy looking fellow) from a wholesaler today. They didn't have any good B types, only sharwill which I've read doesn't do well in melbourne and I needed dwarfs due to limited space, so Rincon & gwen it was. They'll be going near my bacon & fuerte this spring. Does anyone know how quickly a rincon will fruit in melbourne? Is it asap like the gwen & a heavy bearer as well? | About the Author J Upwey, Victoria 20th March 2011 9:13pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... How do you get a Rincon a meter tall? :P is a stick holding it up?. Mines 10 years old and barely more than a meter tall. Granted it's probably 5 meters wide :) but that's just the way it goes with them. In the end it takes up much more room at ground level than a 40 foot tall Reed, so it's kind of dwarf but also not really depending on which way you look at it. I like to think of Rincon as almost a ground cover. I have a Sharwil that's just starting to do well now after being in the ground for many years doing nothing. It actually set a fruit this year but it since fell or got knocked off. I might get some fruit off it in the next few years but I'm not expecting it to do much | About the Author Jason Portland 21st March 2011 3:46pm #UserID: 5078 Posts: |
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J says... There's a stick holding it up! But its healthy looking. Could you give me some more info as to how your rincon performs, the fruit quality (I'm not expecting hass quality, but I've seen you post on cloud forest that it's better than you expected) and how heavy it crops in portland? I got a second gwen because I want two tree's that are early producers. I'm hoping the rincon is an early producer as well. | About the Author J Upwey, Victoria 21st March 2011 3:52pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... Rincon is a little bit resinous tasting but not too bad. It crops very heavily when it's got enough food. Much more fruit per size of the tree than Bacon, but you expect that from all type A trees. It doesn't crop as heavily as Hass or Gwen though but those two are ridiculous. It's not as good a fruit as Hass or Bacon but good enough for spreading on your toast, it fruits about a month? after Bacon, probably in December/January mayyyybe also February. It's worth growing anyway. I actually had two of them but lost the smaller one in a especially nasty heat wave and dry year. I can probably go outside now that it's stopped raining and have a rough count up of how many fruit are on my 1 meter :P tall Rincon | About the Author Jason Portland 21st March 2011 6:57pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Jason says... Well there's more than 200 on it now, but by the time they are ripe I would say another 50 or so would have met an untimely end so 150 would be a pretty safe bet to be mature next Summer. I had a quick count up on my Hass tree the other day and got to around 300 alarmingly quickly so I don't know how many fruit are really on that tree but given that it's also got last years "off year" on it there's surely over 400 fruit actually on the tree right now. You can imagine a Hass tree that's at full size wouldn't have much trouble at all doing 1000 fruit since mine it's still fairly small as far as they go. My Bacon trees tend to do around 100 fruit a year on average each lately. It's not so many but I have 5? of them so it adds up | About the Author Jason Portland 21st March 2011 7:57pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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J says... Does the rincon bare fruit at young age like the gwen? or is there a wait period like the fuerte? If I can get 150 fruit off my rincon, I'll be very happy. And based on how you stated that it's a low spreading tree, I was initially going to plant in an area that had a 2.5 X 2.5 meter spread, but I've realised I would be crowding the bacon & fuerte if it grew any bigger than that(or they would be crowding the rincon) so I've decided to cut a crappy non fruit tree back and plant it near that. Thanks for this info, Jason. You're a life saver. | About the Author J Upwey, Victoria 21st March 2011 9:06pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... You should be able to plant the Rincon near a stone fruit tree which has deeper roots, they wont be on the same level under the ground and wont compete with each other. The other tree will just come up from within the Rincons foliage eventually. You can usually get away with planting stuff very close to each other if they aren't the same type of tree. I stepped out my Rincon tree btw and it was about 5 meters across and maybe slightly over 1 meter tall, that's 11 years old. The only other Avocado I have that's as wide as the Rincon is Hass but it also grows upwards. Rincon fruits fairly young, within 3 years anyway, but they all need to get a certain size before they are happy about fruiting. If you can get your head around it, try to pull most of the fruit off them for the first few years so you get the maximum growth as fast as possible. It's tempting to go WHAOOOOO I got 3 fruit, but if those 3 fruit are going to set you back a year from getting 100 well... better off to buy those 3 fruit from the shop. Sometimes it's hard to be logical with these things though. Since you have limited room, you should try and train your Rincon up a bit higher than it will naturally want to grow, if you can stake it up until it's 2 meters? then once it hardens up at that height, let it grow sideways after that. I think it will better use your space. then 2 meters x 2.5 is enough tree mass to have the same fruit as mine does with 1 meter x 5 meters :) | About the Author Jason Portland 21st March 2011 10:14pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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J says... I know, I know, I should be more patient and I generally am. I've been very good with my citrus & my gwen that have flowered so far. I plucked off all their flowers and let em grow. I had a better look at the original site I wanted to plant the rincon & decided it would end up crowding the other avocado trees too much even with training. So the other site about 15 metres away from all my avocado trees will have to do. | About the Author J Upwey, Victoria 22nd March 2011 10:57am #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... J, here's a video of my Hass tree and area around it that I made this morning for your inspiration. You should have something similar in a few more years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzeIqRzSCII& | About the Author Jason Portland 22nd March 2011 12:58pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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J says... hey jason, thanks for that video. I would have appreciated running commentary too!! :) at 0:18 of that video you pass a smaller avocado tree loaded with fruit. Was that your gwen? Because While the video was inspirational, I no longer have a hass (my one from daleys passed away a few months ago. One of my only casualties!!) I also checked out your other videos. The bacon and rincon ones were good viewing. Your rincon is indeed a drooping hedge!! Also checked out your spring garden tour 2010. Nice work, but did you include all your white sapotes in that video? I didnt see/notice a single one! Incidently through your videos I linked to a video from an american tree nursery that sold avocados. They had the mexicola variety I've read bout thats the most cold tolerant variety there is (that suprise! suprise!! we don't have here in australia). Good stuff. | About the Author J Upwey, Victoria 23rd March 2011 11:09am #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... J, yes I walked past a small Gwen tree in the video, That tree has had more than 3/4 of the fruit stripped off it because it just set too much to grow at all. Idid actually walk past lots of stuff in one the way to the Hass tree, there's several White sapotes and three different species of Papaya I walked past that are in that video + quite a few Cherimoyas and tons of other things all growing together. The tall tree with the straight up trunk is a White sapote and the first thing I under to the left is my Reinecke tree. The other Spring garden video doesn't go in that "tropical/edible" section at all just the other stuff that's around it, I purposely walked around it since I'm going to make another video with commentary on that section in a few weeks (Autumn video). I've uploaded an old 2003 and 2004 video but haven't made them public on youtube yet and wont until the new one is done. Then I'll put all three of them in one playlist. Since that's my before and after plan :P I'm going to try and walk in the same places in the new ones to try and show some idea of the changes in 6-8 years. The Rincon and Bacon trees grew pretty good since spring too but I don't think I'll get over there in the new video. I'll just be on the other side with the sapotes and stuff. Mexicola was actually in Australia at some stage. I've seen it in some old books as a variety that's in Australia but I've never seen anyone that still has it. The only person I know with a purple skinned pure Mexican valley tree is that guy in the ABC garden show that moved from Sydney to Brisbane, he has a seedling one and he was trying to induce it to fruit last year on the show. I could / can / could have easily get seed from those purple fruited trees from relatives in Mexico if it was legal to bring them :S. So we can only blame the governments uselessness and the QLD Commercial growers stopping Victoria and Tasmania growing avocados (trying to stop at least) for that one. If you ever decide you have room for one and think you want to graft a bit of Hass onto a seedling I'll send you some bits | About the Author Jason Portland 23rd March 2011 12:59pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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juanita says... To all the avoc experts here, how invasive is the avoc roots?Im planning to transfer my potted bacon avoc in the ground soon & the ideal place is near the house w/c is approx 1/2 meter away from the brick wall, facing northeast. On this spot the avoc will be sheltered from strong gusty wind on a very hot day as well as from frost during winter..Pls i need your advice..Tnx in advance. | About the Author juanita melbourne 10th November 2011 2:04am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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| About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 10th November 2011 7:30am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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| About the Author juanita melbourne 12th November 2011 1:58am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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| About the Author Paul W Warragul 12th November 2011 10:57pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jason says... Paul the one you see the fruit on is just a normal Mountain papaya (Carica pubescens) Vasconcellea pubescens Ben sent me the seeds years ago, there's a few (Carica quercifolia) Vasconcellea quercifolia early in the video too. You can eat both of them although I think it's better to cook the Mountain papaya or it's a bit gut/mouth/tongue dissolving. There's a babaco in the video too. I added annotations just now so watch it again and it will show you what's in the Video | About the Author Jason Portland 13th November 2011 4:28am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Paul W says... Thanks Jason, they look great. Has your mac fruited yet? It looks a similar size to my seedling that is about 9 years old and it flowered last year for the first time. I got only about 20 nuts or so, but this year it has heaps of flowers and so I am expecting well over 100 or more. Also, have you managed to get your Reneki white sapote to fruit? Mine is about 5 years old and a reasonable sized tree, but only has minimal flowers and hasnt set any fruit as yet. | About the Author Paul W Warragul 13th November 2011 2:21pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jason says... Flowered last year (just two flowers) and got 2 nuts on one of them :p (they are still on the tree by the way, are yours ripe already?), this year no flowers at all. Last Summer was so lacking in heat and sunshine here that a lot of my trees decided not to flower this Spring, pretty much have no action on any Citrus at all either. I never got a single Fig to ripen last Summer and I have a bulk load of Fig trees. My Persimmons never ripened either, I left them on the tree until August until they went rotten and they were still astringent. This Summer is looking much much warmer so I should be on schedule for Macadamia action next year. I have two Mac trees in the 15-20 foot range and one not all that far smaller so sooner or later I'll get a good crop. I got about 20 fruit off my Rienecke for the first time 2 season ago (11 years old), that was only the second time it's made any flowers, had about 10 flowers this year but no fruit set. It's not a winner fruit wise that variety, doesn't taste so good either but it looks nice. If you have limited space and aren't in to collecting them you would be better grafting it over to Vista, Vernon or Pike. The ?good? news is that this year looks like will be a huuuuuuuge year for Avocados, I wont be surprised if I break the 1000 fruit mark with all the trees combined for the first time. This year I also grew for the first time ever a really good tasting Cherimoya (my Fino tree was like 80% of the way towards a perfect Cherimoya) I was very impressed with that tree this year after kind of giving up on being able to grow a truly good Cherimoya here. I put a bulk load of fertilizer on it last year, something helped but I'm not sure what yet | About the Author Jason Portland 14th November 2011 1:55am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Paul W says... Some of the nuts on the Mac fell off, but the texture seems really immature. Like they arent ready yet, so I guess I just need to wait some more. My satsuma mandarin had a fairly quiet season last year, but this year it's making up for it as there must be hundreds that have set. I had a good season on the Fuyu persimmon last year (I got over 70 fruit off the one tree). Doesn't look like it will produce so many this year though. I am exremely impressed with the flavour and texture of the non astringents. If you eat them just after they are crisp like an apple and just beginning to soften, they are superb! That's disappointing about reneki sapotes. Kind of wish I hadn't bothered now. I have Ortego, Vista and Chris already although the Chris is small and hasn't fruited yet. Very impressed with your avocados. This is something I have really struggled with due to my poor hard clay soil and being so dry over the last 10 years or so (except for last year). I have had quite a bit of success grafting then onto seedling rootstocks though this year. So I now have Gwen, rincon,ettinger,hass and reed ready to to go in the ground. I also have a fuerte, bacon and wertz that are starting to shape up but probably still a year or so away from fruiting. Interesting about your cherimoya comments as I had exactly the same experience. My finno de jette tree is about 8 years or more and the first time it fruited I was dissapointed after reading such great reviews. This year how ever, it was a very different story. The fruit were fantastic. Quite a bit of variation though, but the good ones were incredibly good. Maybe it was just a good season for them rather than the fertilizer? | About the Author Paul W warragul 14th November 2011 9:41pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Jason says... Maybe it was just the extra rain that helped the Cherimoyas along?. Although the were looking quite sick these last few years with a fair bit of dieback. No such bad health this year though. I had I guess 1000 mandarins this year from only 4 trees or so so I guess it's not surprising they are taking a rest from flowering now. I actually found one of the two Macadamia nuts on the ground today, the green husk was split open so I ate it :). It was kind of "fresher" tasting than ones you buy, a bit more water content and smaller but very nice all the same. Yeah it takes a while to figure out the right conditions for yourself to be successful at grafting Avocados. You can also loose your Avocado graft mojo! as I seemed to last time I tried to graft some most failed. But I did get a very vigorous young Hass tree from my efforts last year and that tree is pretty much certain to go on and make hundreds of a fruit a year at some stage now. This year is actually looking like being the first good year of fruiting for my oldest Fuerte tree, I'll get a rough fruit count on it in a month or so but right now it looks like lots of flowers have set. Normally it only gives a few fruit but I figured it would come good eventually. Ettingers still wont fruit but well worth its space as a pollinator and Gwen is a bit too small to outgrow the grazing of the Kangaroos. I only have two small badly shaped Reed trees but it's promising and I will graft myself up a really good one of those one day. I guess if I have to make my Avocado collection smaller and the most productive I'd have Hass, Reed, Bacon and Fuerte with one Ettinger in the middle as a pollinator. I guess it was similar for you but the growth I got here last year was just double or triple what I normally get on everything despite being so cool. I've also gone and collected some more Fig trees over the last year, I must have around 10 varieties now. It's a fruit I really like but one that is really borderline with my lack of heat so I need to collect lots of them to find out which ones are winners and which aren't. But overall things are getting fairly productive now, I can go outside pretty much any time of the year and bring back a jumper full of fruit and that's a good feeling I reckon. Even better that it improves every year. Vernon is a Sapote well worth having it's season is a little later than Vista and Ortega is more less a pollinator since it only has tiny fruit. Chris doesn't fruit very often at all for me yet but is sublime when it does, no other sapote I've got comes anywhere close in flavour | About the Author Jason Portland 15th November 2011 2:16am #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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J says... So Jason, the Reinecke commericial fruit wasn't as good as you hoped? As good as pike? My two gwen, rincon and small bacon flowered but they have all dropped their flowers. I think they are too small to fruit yet. Most of my bigger white sapotes are flowering right now including my chris. Should get a decent crop this year. | About the Author J Upwey, Melbourne 15th November 2011 10:37am #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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| About the Author J Upwey, Melbourne 24th November 2011 2:16pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... I don't know anyone that's tried Pinkerton but I'd bet anything that it would fruit very well in Victoria being a type A Guatemalan tree like Hass and Reed which are both excellent for Victoria. I've always been sure it would be a winner, just never got around to getting one. Shepherd isn't an especially good fruit and is a type B so I wouldn't bother with that one but it might be useful for a few fruit at an odd time of the year. Ettinger generally wont fruit, you get a couple once in a while, but that's it, you still need an Ettinger for it's extreme excellence as a pollinator though. Reinecke wasn't all that good no, it's ok, the main problem with it is how long it takes to fruit and how few fruit it makes | About the Author Jason Portland 24th November 2011 3:32pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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J says... Thanks Jason. I don't really have enough room for a avocado tree that doesnt fruit and just pollinates, so Ettinger is out. I'll try a pinkerton. I've got two very large non fruit trees on the border of my property and this winter I'm going to have them removed and I'm going to put more avocados in their spot. It's the only remaining room I have for fruit trees on the property so I'd like to make it count! I'd like to put a type A & B in one hole each and I have room for 6 trees if I do it like that. So far I've got 2 gwens, a bacon, fuerte and rincon which are all powering on. The both gwens flowered this year (again) but this time I left the flowers on but they all dropped off, so yep, it looks like I need a Type B to flower at the same time. Out of the six new avo trees I'd like to get a hass & bacon in one hole, Ryan and reed in another and then a pinkerton/wurtz & zutano in the final hole. Hass, bacon, reed and wurtz are easy to find (Sheppards nursery or sunraisya nursery have them) but I can't seem to find Ryan, pinkerton & zutano in any nurseries/online nurseries. Any recommendations? You could say daleys but daleys avocado trees don't do well where I am. Must be the rootstock. | About the Author J Upwey, Melbourne 24th November 2011 4:36pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... It's lovely of them to host the forum but I have to say every single Avocado I've bought from Daleys has died sooner or later and just never looked like wanting to live. Pretty sub standard trees when it comes to Avocados, but you can live and learn and improve, so that's just some feedback. All the successful trees I've got have been commercial grade trees from the Sunraysia area. Bought and planted at the proper age and height (young). You only need one type B tree really, if you don't want Ettinger the next best thing as a pollinator is it's parent (Fuerte) which will fruit. If you have 3 holes left plant a single tree properly in each hole. Reed, Pinkerton and a Hass. Give those 3 enough space and you will get several hundred fruit from each one every year. Your better off forgetting about Wurtz and Zutano and Ryan they are no good in comparison, well Ryan is ok but it's so similar to Bacon with less production, you can match the amount of fruit those 3 would make put together over 10 years in one year with Hass. I'd rip the Gwens and Rincon out too and replace them with another Reed another Hass and a Bacon if that was me with limited space. That's just my opinion if you wanted the most production with the best quality fruit you can get. If you just want to collect them for the fun of it then you can get all those smaller weaker trees and type B's but I wouldn't if I was doing it again | About the Author Jason Portland 24th November 2011 5:14pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 24th November 2011 5:17pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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J says... Hey jason, thanks for the advice again. The aim of planting all the avocado varieties is to get varieties that give me fruit at different times of the year. Doesn't wurtz fruit at a different time from hass, bacon, fuerte etc? I won't be ripping out the gwens or the rincon because they are perfect for the spot they are in, plus I'm kinda surprised at the advise (RIPE EM OUT!!) because your gwen seems to take a small amount of space and gives you plenty of fruit. Nothing wrong with that. I think I may go with sunraisya for the hass and reed, but 4 of my trees currently are from Sheppards (hastings) who get their trees from Birdwood. The trees have been doing very well, and I've been to the birdwood site http://www.birdwoodnursery.com.au/avocados/ and they seem to sell pinkerton and Lamb hass so maybe I can get them from Sheppards as well. Sunraisya nurseries will not sell you lamb hass (or even gwen) unless you have an ABN and buy from their retail nursery. | About the Author J Upwey, Melbourne 24th November 2011 5:43pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... My Gwen does only take a small space and sets LOTS of fruit, however it's like a citrus, a real pain in the ass because it sets practically every single flower, so I have to thin the fruit over and over again and even then the tree is so small that it tends to almost kill itself trying to ripen the fruit. Most years I've ended deciding I've left too much fruit on it and end up ripping all the fruit off it so it can get some energy to actually grow, since it ripens with Hass I don't care so much. Right now it's got 100 fruit? and almost no leaves because it's struggling to grow them and I've already thrown 100s of small fruit off the tree months ago. If you had a small space and willing to thin the fruit to a sensible amount for the tree it would be great but if you compare it to the Hass tree right beside it well you would just want to cut it out and plant a Hass tree, fair enough the Hass tree is 50 times the size and probably takes up half a normal backyard but you don't have to do anything to it except eat it. Avocados are a very nutrient rich fruit and you need a fairly serious sized tree to produce a fruit like that year in year out. I'll tell you when I get fruit from the "good" trees. Hass is April-early September might even be able to pick them as early as March. Reed is like one month later than Hass. Bacon October-December, might stretch into Jan. Fuerte Dec-Feb. For me that's enough Avocados since in late Summer there's plenty of other fruit. I have a Sharwil tree that did almost nothing for 10 years and these last two years has decided to grow very rapidly so it might flower and fruit next season (might) but it hasn't as of now so I have no opinion on that one yet. But really Hass and Reed are the ones to mostly have, they ripen in the dead of Winter, both will hang on the tree a long time and both strong growing Guatemalan type A's | About the Author Jason Portland 24th November 2011 6:26pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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J says... My concern with hass in the dandenongs is that it will not perform as good as say a coastal place like yours in Portland. The one person I know that has a hass (and a fuerte) in the dandenongs still hasn't got his hass to fruit after 7 years and its a big tree. He has a fuerte as well that is 8 years old and has given him 30 fruit so far.. not exactly amazing results, but my fuerte is in a good spot along the border and if it pollinates the other type A's and produces 30 avocados a year that's ok by me. A massive tree that takes up a lotta room in my garden & that produces nothing is not so o'k. That's my logic in choosing the gwens over hass's and maybe my logic in choosing a lamb hass over a hass. Unless ofcourse there's someone else up my way that has had resounding success with hass in the hills.. | About the Author J Upwey, Melbourne 24th November 2011 6:45pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... Well in that case it seems the Hass is too busy growing to be bothered flowering just yet, if conditions are really good for growth they will do that. Or maybe Fuerte isn't pollinating Hass but it should still fruit fairly heavily without a pollinator. I'll bet when it does get into gear it'll smash all previous fruiting records held by his Fuerte tree. I wouldn't really say my trees are influenced by the coast, they are 3km upwind and 80 meters above the sea. 30km downwind and that keeps the temps cool but other than that they might as well not be anywhere near the sea | About the Author Jason Portland 24th November 2011 7:21pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Roch Vic 1st December 2011 1:15pm #UserID: 3191 Posts: View All Roch's Edible Fruit Trees |
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J says... Roch, I think you might be right. My hass from daleys went in the ground and promptly died, will all the avo's I've gotten from vic dont have a single problem with wet feet or cold. Maybe rootstocks used in NSW don't work that well for VIC climates? Sunraisya nurseries in VIC uses Zutano as its rootstock which is meant to be very cold tolerant. Might call forbidden fruit and find what out what rootstock they use. Thanks Roch. | About the Author J Upwey, Melbourne 1st December 2011 1:55pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... J, I've used any seeds I've had laying around and got some very successful trees growing on those random rootstocks none of which are on Zutano. I don't think rootstocks are the issue. Well unless when Daleys ask for large seeds for rootstock to make grafting faster and easier they get West Indian types, I doubt they would grow well here. Really it's just the overall condition when you get the plants, they are older, the graft union generally nothing like the quality of the Sunraisya grown trees. Plus you have the ever present problem of the tree being grown so much further North that it has to go through the whole cycle of having the leaves burnt off and regrowing it's Victorian adapted set of leaves. Roch Avocado's are very hard to keep healthy in a pot, you get much better success planting on the day you get them | About the Author Jason Portland 1st December 2011 2:33pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Brad G Hill, Perth 2nd December 2011 6:40pm #UserID: 2323 Posts: View All Brad's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Jantina Mt Gambier 2nd December 2011 7:44pm #UserID: 1351 Posts: |
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Jason says... Brad if I ever cross the desert I'll give it a go :), you just keep trying you will get there in the end. So long as the temp is around 20c most of the time and the scion doesn't dry out AND has swollen buds you have a pretty good shot. That reminds me Jantina, any signs of life or death on those sapote grafts?. I'll go look at mine now. Also well done on the Reed avocados :) you should get some more Reeds for sure | About the Author Jason Portland 2nd December 2011 8:06pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jantina Mt Gambier 3rd December 2011 9:52am #UserID: 1351 Posts: |
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Jason says... The ones with parafilm wont need to be unwrapped until there's like a foot of growth on the scion. Those ones up the top part of the garden where I grafted the whole tree with pike those don't have parafilm so once the buds start to swell under the tape on those ones just do a little razor slice beside the bud to open the tape so the bud can get out. The parafilm ones will break out by themselves. The Rainbows I did here are still green and good, no bud swell yet but I think they will be winners too. I bet if you can find the graft I did on the tree furthest to the west in the bottom section of the garden with the un named Jason seedling. That will be broken out of the parafilm by now since it had buds ready to go when I grafted it | About the Author Jason Portland 3rd December 2011 1:59pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jantina Mt Gambier 6th December 2011 11:22am #UserID: 1351 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 6th December 2011 4:40pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Jason Portland 10th December 2011 7:22pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author ces 11th March 2012 7:33pm #UserID: 2807 Posts: |
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Jason says... Yes self pollinating but they perform better with the second tree with the opposite flower type. In Melbourne if you only have one space I would get Reed or Hass. Reed has perhaps the best flavour being slightly poached eggy?, Hass tastes like well how it does in the supermarket but a little better when home grown | About the Author Jason Portland 13th March 2012 11:19pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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| About the Author Oryx Eltham 14th March 2012 9:57am #UserID: 5608 Posts: |
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| About the Author ces 14th March 2012 9:05pm #UserID: 2807 Posts: |
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| About the Author Chris Sydney 14th March 2012 9:51pm #UserID: 2281 Posts: |
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| About the Author Oryx Eltham 15th March 2012 8:01am #UserID: 5608 Posts: |
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Grubs says... Putting in my Avos from Daleys now before it gets too cold. I got a Hass and Fuerte 2 weeks ago and ordered a Bacon and Reed this week (all from Daleys - oh the freight!) ..I've ripped the ground, and added a little horse poop around them...but is there anything special to do given that planting just before winter seems (to me) like the wrong thing to do. I'd been waiting for 6-9 months for Daleys to have stock so got them now while I could (didnt think to look at the local Bunnings!). Will they need plastic guards to get through the first winter... or just leave them and go with the flow? | About the Author Grubs Melbourne 16th March 2012 2:02pm #UserID: 6716 Posts: |
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Brendan says... Up here Grubs, we plant avos on a mound, and never dig a big hole to plant them in, it forms a well and the the tree ususlly dies from being overwet. The mounds I use are just soil, old cow manure and a fair bit of Gypsum, covered with a coarse mulch, and NO fertilizer. Could be different down there? Jason down your way will know. | About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 17th March 2012 9:50am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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j says... Grubs, based on my experience with the one hass tree I got from daleys, I'd say you'd be better of planting it in spring. Keep in mind I did that and the daleys hass still carked it. Haven't had single problem with any my locally bought avocados such as Gwen, Bacon, Fuerte and Rincon. Jason has had similar bad luck with daleys avocado trees as well, so maybe take extra care of it. | About the Author j 17th March 2012 10:02pm #UserID: 2954 Posts: |
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Jason says... I put mine straight in the ground with a minimally dug hole. Once they are planted I give them fairly heavy doses of fertilizer and good mulch to inspire them to grow straight away and strongly. The first couple of years are the most important, if you get strong growth then, then you will have a good long term Avocado tree. On the other hand I've never had an Avocado from Daleys survive long term, all the good trees that I haven't grown myself came from Sunraysia nurseries. That doesn't mean Daleys aren't growing good trees at the moment, just that they weren't real flash during the time I was starting out with my fruit growing. If you have a good tree you can plant it any time, a lot/most of mine were planted in Autumn, the quicker you get them out of the pot the better, same day you buy the tree if possible | About the Author Jason Portland 18th March 2012 11:44pm #UserID: 637 Posts: |
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Brendan says... Another tip I do grubs is when making the mound (or digging the hole), I sit the avo tree in a bucket of water with a glug of seasol. The reason for this is to wet the root ball and give the roots a feed, because if they're planted with a dry root ball, it's VERY hard to wet after it's planted. Agree with Jason, plant 'em asap. | About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 19th March 2012 9:24am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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Grubs says... Thanks all. I like a challenge and it sounds like I'm starting in the right direction. The plants arrived from Daleys in perfect condition with nice wet root balls (pots enclosed in plastic) and I was there on delivery day to unwrap and water them. 2 days in the carport with daily water and weather that was rainy anyhow so they didn't dry out. Planting spot is a slight slope near the top of a gentle rise so good drainage (never boggy even in Melbourne Winter). I ripped the ground in a patch then barrowed in a couple of loads of dirt which got mixed with a little horse poop and the local soil to form broad planting mounds. Seasol when planting (and another one since) and an extensive ring of 6 month old tree chipper mulch well clear of the stems. The trees got a very slight droop on planting day but have straightened up and looking good. The soil here is fairly shallow unfortunately - 30-50cm and then clay underneath. Nothing like the 2m mentioned here: http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/AvocadoMaintenanceSchedule.htm *sigh* ...now I'm thinking I might empty a compost bin and raise them up a bit further before the roots get established. The Bacon and Reed are on the truck now so I'll start mounding soil! Edit: I'll splash some gypsum around too. | About the Author Grubs Melbourne 20th March 2012 10:58am #UserID: 6716 Posts: |
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