Jaboticaba

amanda starts with ...
Hi all... has anyone got these guys growing successfully? I don't know what to do with mine.. :( Happy Earth - what have you fed, watered and done with yours- it looks pretty good?

I have googled them but the info' is quite conflicting. Others forums say water and fertilise heaps to push them along - but the technical info' says water little and frequent and don't fertilise too much (as they are slow growing and thus sensitive)

Which is true!? I'm confused.

(mine nearly 3yrs and seedling small leaf type - from Daleys)

amanda says...
Thanks HappyEarth... what's BD lifter? Is that like "Seamungus"?
I am planting a Rollinia shortly - so it's helpful u mentioned that about the water too.

I have been really pleased to hear the feedback on the tastes of Jabo's and Grumichamma's - I can't wait!

amanda says...
hay Happy Earth - ha! and here I was imagining u guys filling up cow horns under the full moon and wondering if I should try it to get plants like yours!!! :)

Julie says...
HappyEarth, it's 'Dynamic Lifter' - nothing to do with biodynamics.

Were you making a joke?

amanda says...
Buggar Happy Earth! does that mean u do do the cow horn thingo?! :))) I thought your plants looked too good 2 b true for chook pellets! Speedy - thanks again for the info.. i can't believe u can store so much in your brain - u r very lucky! :)

HappyEarth says...
Hi Amanda,

lol ... no, someone else does the cow horn thing for us. 'Earth Magic' is our play on words for biodynamics. At our place we occassionally put out a biodynamics preparation called BD500. It cost almost nothing to buy and use - you can by it online if interested but you probably need to do a course first:

http://www.biodynamics.net.au/active_member_products.htm

Hope this helps,

Rich
www.happyearth.com.au

HappyEarth says...
They put horse manure (or is it compost) in a cows horn and bury it over winter. In spring its dugup and then small portions of this are mixed in water, stirred in a special way, and then scattered around.

The theory is esotecic and came from Rudolf steiner (have you heard of steiners schools?) who was a clairvoiyant. I guess it works in the same was as homeopathy. Its so cheap to apply I just do it anyway from time to time.

Rich
www.happyearth.com.au

recher says...
speedy replies
Oh yeah, they hate being in the shade of other trees, at least around Nthn.NSW.

I 100% disagree.

I am growing 78 jabots up to 30 years old

full sun in early years seems to bleach the leaves.

overall they look much nicer growing in shade

I also have many spontaneous seedlings that perform better than nursery grown stock. I have self sowners doing remarkably well germinating and keep on growing established in close proximity to much much bigger trees.

so far tho shade seems to be a limit on [production but too early to be deinitive

also chance sun yellowing nutrient defiency but condition obsrved all over town

Speedy says...
Hi Recher,
I agree, they do look much better in shade,both M.cauliflora and M.jaboticaba,
but what i said was really in regard to fruiting so was only part of the story and a bit of a misleading statement if not qualified.

There are a few trees I planted in Clunes ('93-'94?), some in full sun and , some in shade.
The ones in full sun fruited at younger age and yielded heavier crops than the ones in shade when they eventually did.
That's not to say that the ones in shade may not produce really well eventually.
The ones in sun are near the house and may get a bit more water than the others, I haven't seen them for a few years now.

Also I've had little experience with really mature trees.
Maybe I should reserve judgement for another 20-30yrs. :-)

I do remember you mentioning some years ago that cincturing large branches of Jaboticaba is a good way to induce fruiting.
It's also employed by some commercial Avocado growers in climatically marginal areas.

Three years ago I made 20 litres of Jaboticaba Wine...
Very nice. ;-P

amanda says...
Hi Recher - would u be able to tell me more about Rollinia please? I am going to plant one soon and it was the only one I could find in Perth (ex-Daleys plant) It sounds like a lovely fruit so I don't want to mess it up?

We recently had 2ºC o/night (coldest in a decade) is this going to be ok for a rollinia do u think?

amanda says...
Thanks HappyEarth - that explains why my plant is so sad looking! Should I wait until spring to plant out?

The night/morning easterly is very cold here in winter - wind chill factor is brrrrr!!!
(But days are just lovely - about 20ºC)

recher says...
i'm not hygienic enuf for wine make but i turn out a five star jabot liqueur

shade does seem to influence fruiting downwards

recher says...
dorroughby is east and north of lismore and west and north of byron

my main feeding program last few years centers on KN, meat bone meal, dolomite

HappyEarth says...
Hey Paul,

'Grey' is a grafted variety that daleys sells. Im really just after a grafted green sapote. Do they fruit well for you at your place? How big do they get?

Interesting what you said about the rollinia being mid id'd ... sounds like the whole inga edulis confusion all over again.

Have a great day,

Rich
www.happyearth.com.au

Speedy says...
I think the 'grey' is named after Don Grey (Gray?), a fruit grower in FNQ.

White sapote 'Chris' is also apparently names after his wife.
The story goes that she prevented him giving the original tree (seedling) the chop
for under performing (not fruiting) after many years, but when it eventually did fruit,
it was good enough to keep and distribute.

I seem to recall an Abiu cv.'Grey' also.

Justin says...
Recher, what's the flower in the photo you posted? It looks great, but doesn't look like a jaboticaba from the pictures I've seen on the net.
Thanks.

culebra says...
also which type of Jaboticaba is better to get?
i saw a both a small leaved and a large-leaved form at a nursery.

recher says...
you want both and more than one

they're distinct species

i know them as m. cauligflora now plinia edulis = small lf

m. jabotiacaba now plinia somethingornother = lrg lf

i have circa 78 m. cauli

and 8 m. jabot but wish i had 20-40

recher says...
if your rollnia is handling your winters okay its the more hardy species. the other you'd notice the suffering

kn...more for your money....less acidifying than other N sources?????....i've gotten god reslts with 25 kg kn, 40 kg blood bone 7-6-0, and 25 kg dolomite mixed

i use not enough. last couple years more than ever and itsabout 2 tons over 14 ha. with widevariability in who gets how much. i got 32 ha and dont fertilize the native forest, bit of paddock, or 7 bodies of water

i broadcast. i prefer the kn fines to granules bec. i get so much dew i believe it turns the kn component into a foliar feed on the udergrowth andoverallmore effective and less lossto air bbut this is contrary to recommendation and your climate might best be with granules.

i also put together the pto spray unit after buying it 20 years ago and have started foliar feed (motive fix boron defiency) with tractor and200 ltr drums


great fun not doing it nearly enuf

BJ says...
How long does it usually take for a Jabot to flower usually? Mine has a few cauliflowers afer only 6-8 months in the ground, and no larger, but a little sturdier, than those you usually find at bunnings etc. Is this normal?

My only real experience with them was my Grandfather's tree that took a full 7 years to flower, and from that point hasnt stopped fruiting profusely for about 8 years...

BJ says...
I have an old, very large, plastic paint bucket that I have been using to catch rainwater from a broken down pipe. Every morning/afternoon before/after work I give the plant all 15+ litres. Maybe that is why its flowering already? And we've had alot of rain this season...

BJ says...
I just went out and had a close check again with the torch. It has one large cauliflower, and a number (at least a dozen) protrusions from the trunk and lower branches which I am presuming will turn into flowers.

It is interesting as it has a sore at its base, presumably where a graft went a bit wrong. Could that also be stressing the plant into flowering?

The soil is an old quarry. I had a blueberry in the hole it is in. The Bluberry died, so I put the Jaboticaba in its spot, so it would be slightly acidic from the Blueberry soil. I just use Organic Xtra every few months. And I have been experimenting with 'man water' the last few weeks, as I couldn't be bothered to jump up the extra terrace to go on the citrus...

Steven says...
Thats funny. i was watching an article on TV where they are trying to develop a toilet where you do your business in two separate compartments of the bowl and your wee gets filtered to remove pharmaceuticals and bacteria so it can then be used on the garden.

amanda says...
Good luck BJ! let us know how it goes. Hi Steven - wee will pick up some normal body flora as it passes the outer body skin ... if it's left to "ferment" in a holding tank then they will breed up and it gets quite smelly. If your urine was not sterile (in your bladder) - then u would have a urinary tract infection..fresh wee from a healthy person is very harmless and not germy at all - I think it's just the yukk factor for most folk.
Interesting about the toilet!

Jim says...
Unfortunately urine is not disease free from a human perspective since there are many viruses that can survive for long periods of time in people's urine. So while it may be a good idea to fertilize with urine in general, i would be cautious about urinating in areas where other people (especially children) would come into contact.

PaulW says...
BJ, is this a grafted plant or a seedling? I have had mine in the ground for about 6 years or so and is not very big at all (maybe 5ft tall)and doesn't look like fruiting. Mine is a seedling unfortunately, so I was thinking of getting a grafted plant.

amanda says...
Thanks for the pics BJ! Really interesting. My biggest and best Jab' got split right down the middle by a star picket - I taped it up but it was not fazed in the slightest - so it must be a fairly tough tree??

Anyway - I was wondering if u have something special there and should grow some of your seed and see if that is as precocious?
Recher would know - but he only pops in the forum very rarely.

recher says...
never ever seen or heard of grafted jabot in this country.

jabots are great healers

i used to cincture branches in the early days to bring on fruit and they all healed rapidly

growing about 78 all over 22 years and a few 30 plus

biggest of the lollipops about 5 meters

this year i started to prune out the guts with a chain saw to access fruit easier and also maybe bigger fewer fruit???

i started doing this after viewing jaboticaba youtubes where the trees were obviously pruned this way

amanda...i couldnt be sure from the pic but r u sure you got the regular jabot as photo of tree looked like it could be large leafed species?

taxonomists now have jabots in genus Plinia but i'm still stuck on Myrciaria

using old nomenclature i got cauliflora, jaboticaba (lrg leaf), floribunda, vexator, glomerata, also marlieria edulis now plinia edulis, m. cauli. 'sabara', ....

what 'pisses' me off is there are sevral more specis and i dont have them

Biosecurity is a nightmare. Was a time you could bring in myrtacea no problem now they are rightfully paranoid about guava rust, and incorrectly scared of a humungous bunch of stuff

note a simple seed soak in 1% sodium hypochlorite eliminates guava rust fears.

recher says...
just saw small leaf statement

Michael says...
After hearing so many praises for this fruit that I finally got a tree and it's growing nicely in a pot . I didn't picture tasting the fruit until maybe 5 years later but came across it selling in a punnet for $3 at a fruit store in Westfield Liverpool NSW this morning . I got excited and bought two punnets . I was disppointed with the taste . The skin tasted bitter and there wasn't much flesh at all to it. It tasted almost like a purple grape with seeds . I'm putting this fruit on my tasted but dislike category . It's in there with the Pepino and Babaco. Now what do I do with the tree I'm growing ? Hopefully the Green Sapote doesn't fall into this category but where can I buy one to try ?

BJ says...
I dont eat the skins. The rest is fantastic.

Chia says...
Hi Folks, want to know who has cooked parsnip greens, i munch on them a little when working in the garden, sweet, and am tempted to add them to the juicer but have no info on them and this is only my 2nd year growing them and I have such a healthy crop, they look great. So, can I cook'em is the Q,
Cheers, Chia

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Phil@Tyalgum says...
I had my first taste of Jaboticaba this week - the family dog was helping itself to fruit which had fallen from the tree, otherwise we wouldn't have even known they were there amongst the foliage. Would highly recommend growing them, pity they are so slow to crop. A nightmare to clean the seeds if you wish to post them, the pulp clings to the seed and is very difficult to clean off.

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j says...
That's amazing, phil. How old is that tree btw? It looks massive!!

Michael says...
Hi Rich ,

It's almost been a year since I've been to your garden . I can still recall those big delicious paw paw you have growing. I really want to grow a Cherimoya but I don't think I have the space. They are actually hard to find at my local nurseries. Even though I don't like the Babaco but it does look very impressive hanging from the tree. I have three plants in pots full of fruits. I gave a pot each to my sister and mother and they seemed to like the fruit. The one I have left is starting to branch out as well.

HappyEarth says...
One tree should be enough

Rich
www.happyearth.com.au

j says...
I've got one Jab from perrys and another from Daleys. Perry's tree has smaller leaves and Daleys has the bigger ones. They are within 20 feet from each other, so I'm assuming they are different varieties should cross pollinate each other. I've included pics.

The perrys jaboticaba has leaves that seem to a little yellow on the edges. When it dropped it leaves earlier this month and popped out a new flush, the new leaves where almost lime yellow. They have since started to get greener in colour. Is this normal? Or do the yellow edges signify lack of something?

I've kept the soil moist & mulched and the mix I have used is acidic.

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Mario says...
Hi Michael,
What shop in Westfield Liverpool did you find the Jaboticabas? Any idea where it comes from?
Thanks

amanda says...
I am wondering if Jaboticabas are 'extremely' salt sensitive? I have noticed that since mine have been watered with only rain water- they are looking so much better.

They are in tree sacks in the shade house now - but we have had good consistent rain this winter - plus I am using it from the tanks - and they are going mad this winter!?

I wasn't expecting much growth over the cold winter - but they have put out the most they ever have? (and no burnt margins or yellowing either...)

They also seem to love Seasol/Seaweed?

amanda says...
Thanks BJ - I just found an interesting site that discusses salinity issues with a variety of plants - seems that chemical fert's are not the way to go for these guys also (increases salinity)

They recommend weak fish emulsion and NO chemical nitrogen sources...(only organic) I am guessing it is finding the regular rainfall more reliable than my forgetfulness too! :-O

I have been really surprised at how hardy and satisfying the kwai muk is to grow..? So far mine has not been bothered by anything in Gero - not even the scale or aphids that were invading the plants right next to it.

It's a plant I would be prepared to try in many locations...what do u think?

amanda says...
Thanks Mike. What do u feed yours?

amanda says...
Ok Mike - thanks again...I will give the B&B with 10% potash a try :) Anyone know how to get basalt rockflour in WA? Does it have a brand name?

I have a top quality liquid trace element product that I like using - maybe this will be ok.

They greened up beautifully one year (in the ground) but I didn't write it in my black book - I can't quite remember what it was - maybe the liquid Powerfeed, followed by seasol I put thru the fertigation system...

They suffered badly from the 'yellows' in my orchard... :-( (which has the secondary-recycled water sub reticulated in the soil...) They were totally plethoric in there.

amanda says...
Lucky U Mike. I am really looking forward to the day I get to try this fruit :) I am using liquid HiTrace (from a rural supplier) it's great value - 60ml thru my fertigation system does around 70 trees!

It has everything except Mg (magnesium - which I don't need much of anyway) - I don't know why it doesn't have Mg - it would be interesting to ask the Aust manufacturer.

My natural soil pH is a 'feather', or two, over neutral. But the subsoil horizon is that bright yellow coarse brickies sand....it's actually lovely stuff. But under that is limestone :-(

Here is a pic of what mine used to look like, in the ground. Very unhappy guys...

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amanda says...
Do you prune yours Mike? (do they ever need it?)

Mike says...
I enjoyed some today and noticed both rambutam and mangosteen flowering out of season.Yes Amanda I prune the living daylights out of them.I keep them at 4m and 4m diameter with a window slice to the centre for plucking.They get well over 10m tall and are very densely foliaged.One at Kamerunga must have been 15m tall and a 6m wide cylinder that was almost impenetrable.I remove about 40% of the foliage once a year and contain height and width.

Mike says...
Amanda they fruit so prolifically with branches tightly packed it is a small sacrifice.There are many kg of fruit at each fruiting event.I have two smaller (1.5m) trees at about 3 years old and I expect them to soon stop dragging their backsides and reach the boom threshold.

gus says...
I am hearing mixed things about whether Jaboticaba requires a mate or not. Has anyone had good success with a single Jaboticaba tree?

gus says...
was this a single tree or does it have a neighbour jujube?
How many years did it take to get your first fruit?

gus says...
Sure a lot of people will be glad to hear that. Does it fruit every year?
I can hardly picture what 50 fruit would look like. I guess that would be a fair few punnets.
I can't wait to get just one fruit off this tree.

allybanana says...
Good to hear, hopefully I also get two crops a year in Eden, I had two flower flushes on my large leaf form, last season and got one fruit on the second flush. I didn't get much, as i invited around my fruit geek mates for the tasting and we divided it up. But all were impressed with the flavor and consequently bought trees.

amanda says...
Jujube - intersting comment about the rain water..thanks - I have a feeling this may be quite important for these guys...

gus says...
sure your tapwater isn't too alkaline for them Amanda? Maybe they need a little squeeze of lemon? I think they like acidic conditions. I have only had mine for a couple of months but I have put it in azalea potting mix and it appears to have grown a little already. I thought I was imagining it, but my wife noticed it too.

JUJUBE FOR SALE IN MELBOURNE says...
Mine started to grow and flowering when I gave it lots of falling leaves as mulch and lots of water and azalea fertilizer.

gus says...
I think that could be a good idea Amanda. Is your Jab a large leaf or a small leaf? Seems people are having more success and bigger fruit from the large leaf?

gus says...
That is interesting to hear mike. How big are the fruit? I assumed grape size but have read they are much smaller than that.

Mike says...
Amanda the small leaf type like yours has leaves about 30 to 35mm long is densely foliaged and has fruit 22mm to 27mm in diameter,rarely to 35mm and some are smaller.The larger leaf type has sparser foliage and leaves around 55 to 60mm long with fruit browner and less shiney.pH of 5.5 is ok, and they are heat tolerant so long as humidity is not too low.If UV gets above 16 for prolonged periods the leaves of most trees burn.

Mike says...
They are supposed to be very tolerant and should be alright if they have enough water when it is dry,even when well over 40 celcius.

gus says...
Great info Mike, thanks. I was getting cold feet with my small leaf Jab but sounds like they are just as good as the big leaf.

That is very acidic water amanda. I am surprised by that. The blueberries will love you

amanda says...
(also - that's the pH of the soil gus - the pH of our tap water is 8)

amanda says...
They are in big tree sacks gus (ready for when we get to move...sometime this century) Haven't done anything to the mix (premium potting mix plus some pig poo)
I am curious/surprised as to how it can be that way though...maybe it's the decomposing leaf litter..? I was using an Osmocote slow release fert also. I will keep an eye on it from now on.

Will stick to the rainwater, blood n bone and seasol I think...
I really don't like managing fruit trees in pots, myself, it can be hard to to keep everything just right.

Gus says...
Tas1trees has them:

http://www.tass1trees.com.au/

They are in Baskerville. I have recently got two from there.

Richo says...
Hi, Everyone I have read this forum a few times in the past couple of years.
I am in Brisbane planted a Jab 10 years ago my dog split it first year but it survived and this year I had fruit for the first time, about 60 fruit do they fruit more as they mature?

Mike says...
The bigger they get the more fruit that have alright.My two largest are around 8 years old and have been fruiting several times a year for around 4 years and are currently smothered in flowers.I get at least a bucket of fruit when their cropping peaks.

amanda says...
20yrs David! Nice one! Do they fruit on the minor branches too - or just the main trunk?

Gus says...
A Jaboticaba tree 20 years ago must have been really exotic.

Gus says...
don't get me wrong, they are still very much an exotic. I have never eaten one, or even seen a Jabot tree.
I have met very few people that have tried them, but most that do seem to highly recommend them.
I just can't imagine something so popular to those that have experienced them, being almost unheard of outside these forums.
I would imagine that 20 years ago without such forums, the jab would be even more rare?
Has anyone seen a fruiting Jaboticaba in Western Aus?

Gus says...
Hi Lang
That is a quick fruiting jabot.
You will have to tell us how it tastes.
I am very jealous! (although glad to know they grow in Perth)

KjW says...
Hi All, This is my Jaboticaba in Rockhampton
I planted the tree in 2000 approx 600mm high, not sure which month and it first fruited in 2009.
It's now about 3.5/4m high, I had 1.2m of water in the yard during the floods and thank goodness it survived, I lost a few trees that were just as tall and lost everything that went under water.
The fruit vary in size as can be seen in the pics. They have a tougher skin than grapes with one pea sized seed.
It's hard to discribe the taste, I wouldn't say they were anything exciting(not like a Mango) but they are quite morish grabbing handfulls off the tree while your getting around the garden.
I had some in a container just covered with water and they were still quite edible after about a week.
Cheers Ken

It's a bit hard to distinguish the tree with the others in the background, so I've added an extra pics with it outlined.

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KjW says...
G/Day Gus, I just checked the leaves, the biggest is roughly 40mmx15mm, so I'd assume that would be classed as small leaf.

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KjW says...
Hi Amanda, WOW! I know their slow growing, but yours are exceptionally slow.
Must be the relaxed life style over there or something so their in no hurry to grow.
I'd say I might have better soil here (brown river flat soil)only being about 200m from the Fitzroy River.
I've never fed the tree other than mulch & plenty of water, the worms might have helped a bit to...
I'm just glad it survived the flood and I'm now able to enjoy the fruit from it.

KjW says...
Not real sure, But I think I'd try a dose of either Dolimite or Epsom Salts and some Potash
Someone else might have a better solution
Good luck

Ken

Nick says...
Hey M Nash MT refers to the pot type, in this case it means Mega Tube http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/Plant-Pot-Size.html#Adv) :)

denise says...
In the far north of New Zealand, the jaboticaba has up to 6 crops per year. A single cut around the branches with secateurs-without removing any bark- brings on flowering above the cut.Seeds of fast bearing hybrids can be bought from Fruitlovers in Hawaii. They can bear at 3 years old.

amanda says...
Thanks for the info denise & David - that's interesting about them growing in Auckland. We can google the max and min temps for Auckland and see how they compare to some Aust climates.
Does Auckland get frost?

Mike says...
My 2 biggest trees are currently festooned from the ground to the tips with dozens of kg's of whoppers.There is only so many you and everyone you know can eat.My large leafed one had its first fruit also and they were huge and a bit furry on the skin.Once they reach 2m or so they seem to fruit madly.

Gus says...
Very jealous Mike.

How do they taste?

amanda says...
Nice work Mike. My Jab's are much happier with the blood and bone now, thanks :) (so is the lychee et al)

I find it nerve wracking keeping all my special stuff in tree sacks...eg: the Kwai Muk has filled the big sack with roots already...I don't know what I am going to do with it, if we don't move in the near future...if I keep 'sacking' it up I am going to need a forklift to move it!? :D

brad says...
tassone should have them. call Joe to check on 0419 988 344
http://www.tass1trees.com.au/fruittrees.php

lang says...
Hi Raz
Picked up Jaboticaba from Joe at Tass1 about 4 years ago together with a Grumichama.
Hi Gus
They taste somewhat like a aromatic grape, a little of white necterine and hints of mangosteen. One or 2 small seeds in each, none in the smaller fruits. Nice, definitely worth waiting for. Unlike my grunichama, large bunch of seeds, hardly any flesh although taste nice otherwise. Is it just my plant?

Gus says...
Hi Lang

I am surprised to hear that they are fruiting after only 4 years. Also very encouraging to hear you are in Perth and got your tree from Tass1 like me.
Does it have a very thick trunk?
I kind of assume that i will be driving a hover car and wearing a silver space suit before I see a Jab groing on my tree.

nick giancola says...

Hi Gus. Its nice to see a post from a neighbour [ i live in gwelup] can you tell me are they reasonably easy to grow in our sandy soil?

Gus says...
Hi guys,
Just back from holiday.
Hi Nick Giancola, I have had one of mine growing for only aboout a year now and the other for 6 months. they seem pretty healthy. I added a bit of acidic soil and a couple of other things to keep the acidity up, which they seem to like. They seem a pretty hardy tree and i think they are really nice looking.

Rev says...
I'm told the trick to making good wine and germinating them is the same
Let's the skin and pulp ferment few days then strain.
The colour comes from the skin
The seeds enjoy the ferment and my friend who sells trees swears they all come up like crazy soon after being planted

amanda says...
Hi Jan - of u go right to the top of this thread the first few posts that help? Not sure how they would go in soggy clay though...

amanda says...
Good score kim - I'd grab one in a flash if I was there :) Did they have many? They may be harder to get now that they can't be imported..?

I agree with Gus too - B&Bone has been the best thing for mine too...they have never looked back since...Stay away from synthetic ferts... :(

amanda says...
That's damn good value (for WA) Kim! Well done :) What's your soil like? what suburb are u in? Are u in an established/shady suburb? New suburb? Sandy? Beachy? Loamy/clay?

There is loads of help for your precious purchase here :)

I am not sure I would plant them in this WA heat right now...? U can always re-pot into tree sacks until winter..a little bit more expense but perhaps worth it. Depends on your 'patch'?

They are lovely kim - and from all accounts the fruit is worth waiting for and/or useful. I would hazard a guess that WA might not be an ideal climate perhaps...but some plants are actually worth a bit of extra work...? :)

There are issues with salinity and chem fert's and also our dry/intense heat/sun.
I would not plant them until this autumn at least - and then get back to this forum for advice? Maybe a level teaspoon of B&bone every 2-3 weeks and some dilute seasol every 1-2 weeks...just to keep them going for now (if u don't re-pot?)
What kind of potting mix are they in? Is it cheap rubbish? Are their roots poking out of the bottom of the pot?

amanda says...
Lol...Kim - it sounds like u have caught the bug - welcome to the fruit tree addicts Forum! :D
Well - they are in the ground and seem ok - so may as well leave them?
Have a good read of this thread - Speedy and Happy Earth's at the beginning? There are lots of tips - particularly re watering. They do love lots!

They also like some mulch too. They don't seem to appreciate being "pushed" too hard with fertilisers and are slow growing (so won't need over-feeding anyway) Just stick to seasol and blood and bone.
They also seem to prefer a slightly acid pH 5.5 to 6.5. I have found mine are happier since I brought them down in pH.

Have u checked your soil pH there? VIP!

(I used to live in Dianella - I had heaps of trouble with water repellant sand :( There is also a good thread on WA Sands here too)

Have fun!

nick giancola says...
Hi fellow Sand gropers.
We are in gods own country as far as being able to grow most tropical fruit trees here in the coastal belt.
I have a 7 yo Jaboticaba in a large pot that should start to produce these sweet beries with in 1 to 2 years for sale contact nick.giancola@ceramictilescentre.com.au

Gus says...
How big is it Nick?

Got any pics?

kim says...
Amanda - i'm happy to report my newly planted jaboticabas seem very happy indeed (new growth everywhere). i have read the this read from top to bottom so have given them heaps of water and have mulched them quite generously. now begins the wait for fruit. hehehehe

I have had a closer look at the two newer trees and can see some really thin looking roots starting to poke out the bottom of the pot - how much longer can i leave them in there (i'm still pondering whether to plant them out or repot into bigger pots)?

kim says...
Thanks Amanda. :) I will wait to plant out the newer trees as you suggested originally. I have keep up with the water and the ones in to pots seems to be putting out a bit of new growth, so very exciting! :)

kim says...
at the nursery there were two lots - one in full sun and one under filtered sun, we did pick our plants from the full sun lot as they had been exposed to our very warm summer and excepting for the few burned tips on the leaves they were still quite healthy looking - that as well as the fact they did look a bit bigger in size! :)

at the planting site, we did as instructed by the nursery staff by putting a large amount of potting mix in the ground prior to planting, so i think they're happy because the roots haven't gotten to the sand as yet - do you think they will be ok when that happens? i'm just a bit paranoid now - wished we had put more potting mix in to give them a better home. :)

Doug says...
That tip on blood and bone was fantastic.
This is the third crop since the start of summer, about a dozen just getting to the ripe black colour and perhaps 2 dozen at the pea size.

Pictures - Click to enlarge
Picture: 1

amanda says...
Nice fruit Doug! Well done...how do your jab's handle winter in Melb? Any problems?

kim, yes u can apply the b&b year round...the plants grow slowly thru winter also.
I feed mine every month or two (usually every two months as I am a bit more wary as they are in pots) and also give them seasol every month.

You can always start a worm farm and use the extras to innoculate your soil... :)

amanda says...
yes it's safe kim :)

BJ says...
Does anyone have vextator seeds or plants for sale? I've got a nice spot for one, and I'd love to find one, as we cant import any seeds because of the rust situation (which has already taken my excellent cedar bay cherry anyways).

BJ says...
Recher says he has it above. I know there must be a source somewhere here, as the much rarer M. aureana and a few of the rare plinia are here.

amanda says...
Hi kim...fussy things aren't they? They sure don't like to be pushed too hard with fertilisers. I would give them a really thorough soaking with the hose.

Jab's love their water and as someone mentions - they come from a place that floods. This is handy for you - as you can give them a good flush that they will love - and also flush off some of those extra nutrients...

Apart from replacing the soil (a bit drastic) that's all you can do really.

amanda says...
Can you post a pic of a close shot of these leaves and also the bushes kim?

It would be worth us all having a look at the type of yellowing and the pattern of burning perhaps...

amanda says...
Hi kim...they are starting to look like mine used too :-(

Are u using bore water or tap water?
Were they in full sun all day in summer?

Can't remember now - did you do a pH test?

(in the meantime - keep the water going to them (ie: keep the ground "moist") until the rains arrive...) Have you got any rain water..?

amanda says...
Hi kim...cut the baby bathwater asap - if u are adding anything, at all, to it..?
When you water them try to give them a good deep soaking every 2 days (rather than shallow watering daily - this is not good) ...this will help to wash any 'salts' out past the drip line and down past the root ball.
You are safe to drench them :)

Keep watering them well past the first rains...the first rains can often push salts back into the drip line, as they are not sufficient to flush.

I don't know what the quality of your tap water might be - you would need to get it tested to know for certain.
I had mine tested here - it cost $60 and I picked up the kit from an Irrigation shop. It was well worth it.
Our tap water is very salty and very hard also :-(

I can't water my jaboticabas with our tap water...(nor loquats) as it causes leaf burning. I strongly suspect our intense summer sun (Perth incl) directly on the plants all day - is far too much for these plants also. They need more shade - but just my experience so far.

Other folk have mentioned the "yellows" on these plants, in relation to sun, also (in this thread maybe?)

Luckily I have 50,000L rainwater tank and use rainwater only now - no leaf burning at all.

I can't be sure that is your problem - but it wouldn't surprise me - especially given that Perth's water supply is diminishing - without good rains to recharge the aquifiers it might be possible that the scheme water is saltier than usual.

Anyway - if you see an improvement in the new growth in spring (or well into our rainy season) then it's likely the tap water.

Here is a pic of mine at their worst - before I dug them up - they had been in the ground 2 or 3 yrs at this stage and were just slowly getting worse - despite my best efforts.

The other pic is them now - with only rainwater, a little blood and bone and in a shade house...

Pictures - Click to enlarge
Picture: 1	Picture: 2

MaryT says...
Hi kim - Any growth on the jaboticaba is great good news; I 've had one for years and every new leaf was a celebration :) I gave it away recently to friends who live in a rainforest further north. I hope it'll do better there.

denise says...
I have imported seeds of a hybrid jaboticaba from Fruitlovers in Hawaii. The leaves are larger and the growth much faster. Worth trying.

Gus says...
Interesting Denise.
Do you have any seeds you would like to sell?
Otherwise I will buy some off their website.
Was there anything else worth but=ying from them.
I think postage is like $40, but I assume that if you buy a whole bunch of seeds it probably upsets customs.

Gus says...
I wonder how all the Jabs compare.
Regular, yellow, large leafed and hybrid. Worth having all?

Gus says...
Would you say the large leafed were better than small leafed?

Gus says...
I wonder why the hybrids aren't available here?
When a tree takes so long to fruit you would assume that the shops would go straight for the hybrids and forget about the regualar trees if the fruit are almost the same.
I just bought another regular small leaf that is about 6'5".
I am hoping such a a large tree may fruit a little sooner.

Gus says...
I am surprised that so few people have even heard of this fruit. They are clearly popular amongst those who have tried them.
Do you see a lot of them in Cairns?

amanda says...
So true Mike...but I also find it amazing when a very young checkout operator has to ask me what the english spinach is...?? :-O
Lol..god knows what they'd make of jaboticaba..!? ;-)

I also wonder if people have been dissapointed by their initial impressions of some tropical fruits...especially as you mention that many of our varieties can be sub-standard?

It can do a lot of damage to a fruits reputation when folk just poke seeds in a pot so they can make a buck at the markets selling the plants (and/or the fruit) do u think..?

I am having maybe my 6th go at Durian....(just to make sure that I have tried different types) before I decide it's not for me...I can see why others really like it though (I can't handle that underlying "onion" flavour I keep getting..? anyway - off topic there)

Not all rambutans are great either...I could take or leave them to be honest - in favour of lychee (which is pretty reliably a good fruit..) especially if I am paying up to $20/kilo.

The other factor, for me at least, is the wastage...Thai mangosteen are $18/kg here at present - I could afford to buy a kg as a special treat - but I won't because I know at least half a kg will be wasted pith. Gorgeous fruit but not worth it (and they likely imported that fruit for $3/kilo...grrr..)

Marketing is a very crucial part of getting unusual fruits up and running...but it has to be backed by quality also.

A bit all over the place there - but just thinking about the many different factors that come into play.

I suspect dragon fruit and white sapote will take off (over here at least) as the first significant amount of fruits that have come onto the market are great quality - a big start. Still too expensive for everyday folk though (but I remember when avocados were a luxury too! :)

Getting them recognised and enjoyed will then lead to people growing them at home (just like with avocados..) ?

amanda says...
It's fun testing some of our home grown fruits on visitors isn't it!? :) It blows me away how many folk love our Kaffir plums tho..? Sour is appreciated more often than I realised!? (I like sour too...) My 8yr eats a whole bowl of them at a time...(better than those sour lollies she reckons!?)

My introduction to tropical fruits has only been through holidays in Asia, to be honest. There wasn't much about at Rusty's back when I lived there..? Lots of lovely weird leafy greens tho! Now I know them as Gai Lan, Pak Choy, perennial coriander etc...hehe... ;)

We have also been very spoilt with cheap and plentiful fruit n veg for two generations now...why bother growing their own? People seem to have other priorities these days. In my grandparents days - it was about survival.

I have always loved gardening and veg growing - but fruit tree growing and being interested in selections has come at my middle-age...but maybe that is because I have not owned my own land until now..?

Renting is big handbrake on growing fruit trees, for many people, I feel?

Just some thoughts. I would love to see folk become more interested in the provenance of their fruit. An incredible amount of work goes into breeding, selecting and then getting this produce to market in lovely condition.

Mike says...
That is all true Amanda and I am surprised at how many people enjoy my bilimbis.People seem very interested in growing their own food once they get introduced to it.
I think for some of us there is something innate that drives us to grow plants for food,keep animals and even go fishing.It isn't so much about need or saving money but it is the only and natural thing to do.Not everyone is like this.

amanda says...
Lol...that's funny John Mc..I keep going back too!? The creaminess of it is addictive somehow? I have only ever had frozen Durian :-(

One day I hope to do a kind of gardening/fruit trip in Asia (sans brown thumb hubby... lol) like those "culinary" tours of Italy etc...? :D

Maybe this could be a great business venture for someone like Rev - who is now based in Java...? Hmnnn..

Gus says...
My Grandpa in Scotland used to grow great raspberries. Never been happy with a raspberry since.
I had never heard of feijoas until I visited my cousin in New Zealand.
I couldn't beleive the flavour.
Agree with the Acerola. I like the tree and the flavour but they have a very poor ratio.

John Mc says...
re the Acerola Amanda, I beg to differ. Mine has a comfortable flesh to seed ratio and I wouldn't say excellent, but a subtle sweet flavour. It's been in a constant state of flower since it started which makes it an excellent producer. I bought a labelled Florida sweet from Daley's recently as a control so I'll know how my seedlings (cuttings?)compare with the named var. The Florida sweet probably won't bear fruit for at least another year so I'm waiting in anticipation.
Oh, and they grow by cutting very easy.

MaryT says...
Kim I gave my jaboticaba away because I have limited space so it was in a pot and although it was quite healthy, never flowered or fruited or put on much growth. My friends were delighted to receive it and will care for it and help it thrive. Best of all they'll be able to put it in the ground and allow it to fullfil its full potential. It was a win-win.

Gus says...
Hey B.J

I don't mean to be oppurtunistic, but if you have any seeds of the "cherry of the rio Grande" that would like to sell you have a customer here.
Cheers

amanda says...
Kim...I looked up water quality test results for your area but could only find 09/10 results which were so-so.
(eg: your Average pH is 7.8 which is slightly alkaline and a bit different to what you tested?)

I would suggest contacting the Water Corp and asking them to direct you to the MOST recent Quality test results for your area (the summer results are really the important one's to you)

(If you "complain" about your water they may also do a "spot test" at your street (they did for me when I complained about our independent test results being over WHO limits).. ;-)

The water corp can supply anyone this information at any time guys...it's no drama and is part of their Quality Assurance to you, the customer, so don't be afraid to ask, especially if you are having problems with your plants despite your best efforts...

The next best thing you can do is shore up some rainwater for next summer - so that you can flush your Jab's from time to time with non-salty water.

Post the water quality test results here if u get them? I will be happy to have a basic look for you.. :)

I wonder if anyone else is having the same problems with their Jaboticabas in Perth...?

Gardening with possible marginal water in our sands requires making some adjustments to the normal practices. Fertilising methods will be one of the biggest issues.

I guess this will affect many WA folk in time - as our climate is drying and heating up...and we are not receiving the rainfall to replenish dams and aquifiers...and thus dilute out the 'nasties'...

Certainly this scenario has happened here already in the Mid West...with no other possible sources of less saline water to be found...we are stuck with what we have from underground only. It's only a matter time b4 a desalination plant will have be used - jsut to make this water drinkable (let alone for the luxury of watering my plants...)

Mike says...
Amanda I have not seen anything published on the association in jabs in particular but would be shocked if they had no such symbiotic arrangement.Nearly all trees do but with some annuals and entire groups like brassica there is no association.Truffles are another root fungus group that don't get much air time.Mycorrhizae help fight bad fungi including phytophthora and they are really important to some trees like Nepheliums/lychees.

amanda says...
It's been in there for nearly 2yrs now Mike - the only problem it can cause is water repellancy if the sack dries out. Speedy and Rev mentioned it could be feeding on the woody material in the mix (so I'd better keep feeding it carbon maybe.. :)
I am going to leave it there (no hope of getting rid of it anyway..) the plants are so happy now (see my pics above on 16th April)
Maybe when I put them back into the ground things may change tho.

The only way I can really find out for certain is to get a root section under the microscope (might do this)

amanda says...
kim..in addition to the above (sorry - don't want to overload you..) Jab's like a soil pH of 5.5-6.5 (which is not far above gardenias... ;)

This is a interesting reference as the climate issues and soil salinity may be similar to ours in WA...they also recommend afternoon shade for Jab's (and I agree - for Perth and north)

http://www.phoenixtropicals.com/jaboticaba.html

amanda says...
Maybe Mike....but if you check out the pics of kims plants and my plants you will see the exact same pattern developing. Tell me I am wrong?

No offence but Brisbane and Cairns have very little in common with Perth. It's crazy to try and compare the Brisbane or Cairns climate, weather and soil to kim's in Perth.
Crikey - you likely get less "daylight hours" just with your increased cloud cover...

What do you think kim should do?

Mike says...
Oh yeah Kim could always throw a bit of sulphur around and load it with mulch.The concrete on both sides might give it a hard life if it stays put.

amanda says...
You could be right BJ - but as there are no other WA folk here who seem to be able to help then I guess Jab growing here must be fairly new....? (or everyones plants have died because they can't survive here..oops)

There are subtle differences to caring for most plants in this climate...but to have to start a new thread just to deal with those issues seems a bit extreme...?

Anyway - I'm sorry if I offended you. It was also a bit confusing as you stated they hated the bath water further up in this thread..? It seemed very risky for kim with newly planted trees that are already showing signs of salt and pH stress.

amanda says...
I agree BJ...if my tree sacks get too dry I get slight margin burning straight off...!? I use a very thick mulch of spagnum moss now (with leaves and very small twigs also) they seem to like this and the moss holds moisture and likely increases humidity for them?

They have shallow roots (like a passionfruit I reckon?) that also appreciate not drying out at all kim...

They do need to be kept moist at all times I realise now...this would also stop any salts from re-entering the plant.

They may be more suited to our S-West climates in the long run I am thinking. Unless they can be kept shaded - and they are not a plant than can be plonked in any old soil...it needs to be an advanced, very organic loam..?
(just my gut feeling from watching my guys change...)

MaryT says...
kim it is not generosity, just necessity :) My place is too small for all the plants I have and keep acquiring. Anyway these friends helped me find cuttings for someone on the forum who gave me his Daleys voucher about to expire so the favours are going around and around. Believe me I profit more than I lose. Mike and others on the forum have given me heaps of stuff. He also encourages me to make room for more viable and productive plants. And yes, I expect to see some jaboticaba if that tree ever fruits. I've had it for a couple of years. By the way for acid loving plants try giving them coffee grinds; your local coffee shop would be happy to give you bags of it.

VF says...
Amanda, going back a few weeks ago you were wondering about fungus on your Jabs roots - was reading a book today on local plants and found a mention that "Myrtaceae" (amongst others) "have symbiotic fungi on their roots which enhance nutrient uptake". (from "Wild plants of Greater Brisbane- a Qld Museum Guide". page 304) I would assume this is probably true for all Myrtaceae, not just indigenous plants, but I may be wrong! Hope this helps.

Mike says...
Amanda,this is how I trim my tree to get access to the fruit.

Pictures - Click to enlarge
Picture: 1

John Mc says...
That's an excellent idea Mike, I must keep it in mind when/if mine ever gets that large. Is that a dwarf Amberella on the right?
Nice to see some of your trees, keep the pics comming, hey? give that new camera a workout.

Mike says...
I don't know if this will get through as the system seems to be spazzing about identity again.Yes John that is the smaller of the 2.SG humans take advantage of fruit targeting other animals for seed dispersal.Durian is one of the few primate specific fruit and that could be why it is king.

MaryT says...
They look beautiful Mike.

MaryT says...
Mine too, John Mc; it's hardly changed in three months.

MaryT says...
WOW; I love the look of that harvest. I have noticed that the citrus in the tropics don't seem to colour as well. Maybe they need chill?

VF says...
Sorry to change topic, is the Monoica similar to a Papayuelo?

VF says...
Thanks for clariying Mike as I was curious to what it was, and could see some resemblance. Attractive plant.

Mike says...
Gus,cockatoos,flying foxes,fig parrots,bandicoots,fruit moths,fruit flies,bugs and a few others cause some grief.I spread most around and it comes in pulses.I chopped 2 poorer mandarins down and still have 4.If half get eaten by people I'll be happy.If a quarter of a flush of jaboticabas get eaten I'd be happy so alot goes to waste......but so what there's plenty to spare.Sometimes there is not much.

Mike says...
Gus mangosteen,jaboticaba and paw paws and bananas picked early enough are pretty safe.Oranges,guavas,hog plums and pasionfruit are the worst for pests.Cockatoos go for mandarins,oranges,passionfruit and guavas whereas flying foxes like sapodillas,ripe paw paws,guavas,bugs bite avocadoes,passionfruit,guavas,fruit moths attack oranges,mandarins,guavas and carambola.

amanda says...
Mike (and ps gus below)..I am impressed u are bothering with mandarins Mike...? :)
Here, for eg, I agree with Lowinski - home grown apples are 'nice' - but there are actually some pretty nice apples available in the shops and when the season is "on" they are SO cheap.
I have culled my Fuji and Pink Lady. Waste of time and resources in my climate and soil, IMHO...? U can grow far better than a mandarin - so what's the attraction?

Also GUS...are u on Face book? there is an excellent Perth gardening group u should join..?
Let me know here and we can T-up and email address thru Correy...? :)

amanda says...
It's funny how we crave for that which we do not have. I realise now that I would not swap the Group of Citrus for many other fruiting groups in this world now.
A seasonal fling with mangoes, jaboticaba etc...sure. But citrus are amazing stalwarts - and thru many climate zones too - we juice them, we cook them - peel, flesh, juice, oil etc. We candy their peel, we use them in very expensive perfumes and cheap homemade ones, their essential oils, their healing abilities - their juice at brekky.

An amazing and humble fruit for sure.

Xiem says...
I agree also. I don't know what my breakfast would be without a quartered navel and my homemade bitter seville marmalade (on wholeweal with sliced banana). We can thank the good people of China for cultivating citrus, but paradoxically its very difficult to get a glass of fresh orange juice for breakfast (or wholemeal bread) in a hotel there.

MaryT says...
"All the oranges in HK are from California or South Africa." is not quite true. Chinese tends to eat locally and seasonally so good fruit is usually snapped up rather than exported - transport and cold storage being less sophisticated and expensive. However, regional and seasonal food do come into H.K. but you won't see it in the supermarket; they usually come into the street markets and are gone in a flash. Regular/early customers usually get the lot. There was nothing my mother couldn't get - she went to the market every day at 5 a.m. and then often again in the afternoon.