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Need some expertise on frowing mangoes from seeds

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chillilover starts with ...
Ok so just for fun i have successfully grown about 8 mango seedlings from 6 seeds. I removed the husk and just planted in soil. These are all the kensington varieties.

My first question would be will these eventually fruit in the future. According to the abc gardening website:

"Trees are generally sold as grafted saplings, although some cultivars, such as Nam Doc Mai and Kensington Pride, can be grown from seed sown after removing the flesh. Seeds are polyembryonic, meaning one seed can produce two to four seedlings. Pinch out the strongest seedlings and retain the smallest. This will produce the best fruit."

So i assume my seedlings would. But what about the second bit about keeping the smallest seedling. I thought the strongest would have a higher chance of producing.

Now some of my seeds have multiple plants coming out of them. How do i separate the seedlings.

Would someone also care to comment on this piece of imformation on Burkes backyard site:

"It is worth growing mangoes from seed as they produce up to eight shoots from each seed, only one of which is different from the parent tree. Remove this one usually the centrally-located, most vigorous shoot and all of the other shoots sent up are identical in fruit type to the parent mango tree. "

And lastly why is there so much emphasis on grafted trees.
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Chillilower
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28th January 2012 10:34am
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Brendan says...
Hi chillilover, they will all bear fruit IMHO!
They push grafted trees because they claim the 'rootstock' is stronger etc. Plus to make money.
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Brendan
Mackay, Q
28th January 2012 10:48am
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Danny says...
Grafted trees are more popular because they will bear fruit in one year and will always fruit true to type.
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Perth
28th January 2012 12:20pm
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chillilover says...
In one year ? Hmmm.
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Chillilower
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28th January 2012 2:22pm
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David says...
Mangos come as monoembryonic seed varieties or polyembryonic seed varieties. Monoembryonic types produce one seedling per seed and they are not true to type, so they have to be grafted if you want that variety. Polyembryonic mangos may produce mostly clonal seedlings and also non clonal (generally 1). Typically the strongest seedling is retained as it is likely a clone and true to type. Most of the non-clones are either self polinated or an outcross and not usually more vigorous than the parent. Once the seedlings have produced a few leaves you can divide them up it you want and watch their progress if you want and maybe identify one which is different, which will probably be no good as mangos are very varied in their genetics and you'd have to be very lucky to find something worthwhile. The variation in the vigour of the seedlings which are clones also depends on the amount of the stored energy of the seed that an individual seedling is able to monopolise, so all the difference in vigour you see is not necessarily a genetic difference.
Seedling grown mangos are more vigorous in their early years than a grafted one, so in a cooler climate a seedling is good because the tree can establish itself to a descent size faster than a grafted tree. The benefit of a grafted tree is also that you know you wont be unlucky and get an off type. R2E2 has a reputation for producing a large percentage of off types, but KP are pretty consistent.
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David1
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31st January 2012 2:22am
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chillilover says...
Hi David thanks for explaining this to me. I was about to pot them up today but was going to only keep the little one becuase one the sites i listed above said their good.

Anyhow i'll follow your suggestion.
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Chillilower
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31st January 2012 6:16am
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db says...
I have self-grown mango seedling tree which is almost 1.5 yrs old. I don't what variety but as I remember that mango was big, bit elongated (so I'm guessing it wasn't R2E2), very sweet n tasty, without any fibers. Anyway, tree is now 3 feet high, growing strong.. It was in same pot for more than a year since it started, then just few months back I put it in ground, but main tap root broke in half when I was removing it from pot (that root actually went in ground from pot holes, so i couldn't remove it properly) but survived and started growing fast. To make room for other plants n considering it will be a huge tree, I decided remove it from ground and put in bigger pot, roots again got damaged, but tree has survived very well n again growing fast.. I don't know if it is polyembryonic or not.. There are 2 main stems, one is bigger and 2nd is smaller but its not attached to main stem, looks like 2 stems came from that seed. Could it be from polyembryonic seed?

Considering it will grow in a pot and its seedling and roots got so much damaged, is it worth keeping it? Can mango seedling tree fruit in a pot?
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Db
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21st February 2012 1:29pm
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Original Post was last edited: 21st February 2012 1:32pm
Db says...
Anyone?
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21st February 2012 8:06pm
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denise. says...
The govt research in Auckland used to have grafted mangos fruiting on small trees in pots the size of buckets.I have a seedling starting to fruit and it is only about 60cms high. It is in the ground. The rootzone is tight so similar to being in a container.It is by a north facing wall.
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21st February 2012 8:47pm
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chillilover says...
Hang in there db. It will fruit. If not true to its parent but still a mango plant will bear mangoes. Lol me trying to convince myself.
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Chillilower
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21st February 2012 9:08pm
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Db says...
Ok then, I'll keep it n see when it starts flowering. I just checked it and it's actually 4.5ft high inc rootstock
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21st February 2012 9:16pm
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BJ says...
Db, its likely gonna be huge by the time it fruits. If you've got the space, its worth growing a seedling or two from good fruit, as you shouldn't get a rubbish tree unless you grow seeds of a turpentine or other horrible mango. Do you remember what colour the fruit was? Green, green-yellow, green-red, red, or orange? if you have two seperate stems then you have two plants. You could get both to fruit, producing two different fruits from what will eventually look like the same tree.
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The poster formerly known as...
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21st February 2012 9:41pm
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db says...
Thanks BJ, I don't remember colour of the fruit, it was actually 2 yrs back, but it was not red and green, most probably it was yellow-orange.. If there are two stems coming out of single seed, then both should produce same type of fruit right? I'm not sure why u mentioned 'two different fruits'.. I'll take some photos tomorrow and post it here so that u can see what I mean..
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Db
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21st February 2012 11:09pm
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db says...
Attaching photo pf my self-grown mango seedling tree.. 2nd photo shows 2 stems coming out of the single seed, you can also see main root in the center..

BJ, are these 2 different plants or same? if they are 2 plants, then will have same type of fruits or can have different?

I don't think it grow huge being in a pot.. Anyway, pics here
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Db
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22nd February 2012 6:57am
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denise. says...
It looks as if the seed was planted the wrong way up and the root curled over. When sowing the root should point downwards, which means that if sown with husk still on then the hairy edge should face downwards. I always take the husk off to be sure of a proper development and to biff any seeds that arent healthy. You have some really healthy looking mango trees.
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22nd February 2012 7:30am
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Db says...
Thanks Denise for the reply, I was also thinking same that seed was planted wrong way up when I saw that root for the first time, husk was not removed that time. But do u think these are 2 different plants being 2 stems from seed? Or it just one plant?
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22nd February 2012 7:53am
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db says...
Anyone? Should I remove smaller stem or is it OK to keep both? (see pics above)
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BJ says...
Keep both. They are happy and healthy growing together. Plus it gives you the option of later grafting one of the sides over to a diferent variety, giving you a strong base for a second variety in the same spot.
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db says...
Thanks BJ, I'll keep both then.. I'm not sure if I can do graft though, never tried it, it will be nice experiment :)
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Db
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23rd February 2012 11:34am
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uncle kimo says...
I think the trees will be crowded eventually if left in the same pot. A tree from seedling will bear
in 5 to 7 years sometimes longer. A grafted tree will bear in 3 years. The first seedling is often zygotic which means it is fertilized sexually, and is not true to type. The later sprouting seedlings are usually nucellous which means they are asexual and is a clone of the mother plant. Where i come from the tastiest varieties are not true to type so you would want to graft or take the chance that 5-7 years down the road yu get a junk mango.

DB they are two seperate plants
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umi
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28th February 2012 2:16pm
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Original Post was last edited: 28th February 2012 2:19pm
db says...
Uncle Kimo, thanks for replying.. I realized that when I put that mango plant in ground and again in pot later on, I saw it has only one main tap root, not two for 2 plants. Can they still be two different plants? If yes, does it mean smaller stem plant will be true to type and I should only graft on bigger one?
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uncle kimo says...
If it has one stem it is one plant, but how did it get two stems mango usually grows with one main stem unless it broke. I not to sure on potted mango trees but mango is a big tree so two in one pot will cause the more vigorous treeling to crowd out the smaller one. Grafting will make a smaller tree, not dwaft, but smaller. I graft always because i want to know what i getting and for the most part polyembryonic seeds come from the old varieties that are usually better green and pickled, not as good ripe.
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umi
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29th February 2012 3:12pm
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denise says...
Occasionly I get a mango seedling that divides into two at about the soil level.( not polyembryonic) Sometimes it is associated with a flattening of the stem just below the divide. I would be inclined to trim one off if it is exposed to gusts of wind that could cause problems later on as they graft together and are blown apart..
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1st March 2012 2:12pm
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db says...
Thanks Denise.. I also think that it is one plant only as I saw only one main tap root when I relocated it twice (unless 2nd root was hiding in the soil when I removed it).. Now a days sometimes I think I should just get rid of this tree and get some grafted variety to replace it if I need (thinking of Kawn)..
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Db
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1st March 2012 2:25pm
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David says...
db, I think you can just treat it as one plant. Chances are that it is polyembryonic as the most common varieties here are polyembryonic. Both shoots are probably true to type, but its possible one is nuclear and is an off type. So you could keep both until it fruits just to be sure, or you could chop one off. You can leave it in the pot and keep potting it up if you want. I have one tree in a 300 litre potting bag. I think letting the tree branch low down is good as you can more easily prune it to have an open shape without it being overly tall. Mangoes do send a tap root down immediately when they grow, but even if kept in a pot which restricts its growth it will grow a new tap root when put in the ground.
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David1
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2nd March 2012 1:26am
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john says...
Polyembryology is actually the exception rather than the rule . Kensington P aka Bowen is poyembryonic but few others.Also you may have the wrong idea about "nucellar" as nucellar plants are a clone of the parent
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Mike says...
Bowens are odd in that that are of subtropical Indian origin yet are polyembryonic like most of the the SE Asian more tropical types.Monoembryonics dominate in the US,handle cold better,are more turpsy and usually are more coloured.Some polys have only one dominant stem with the others hardly growing.
David I agree and you can prune any mango tree tobe under 2.5m if you have it from the start.
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David says...
KpP , R2E2, Honey Gold, , all Polys, probably 80% of mangoes sold in Australia
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4th March 2012 1:57am
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Denise says...
The parts of a polyembryonic mango seed that come true to type of the tree they were picked from are nucellar according to my sources. Correct me if I am wrong.
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Mike says...
David polys are increasing their 'market share' everywhere even in India,the home of monos.
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john says...
I'm pretty sure R2E2 is mono.
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denise says...
I wondered about R2E2 too and looked a bit further on the various websites. one site said that it has at least one monoembryonic parent and itself is sometimes polyembryonic. All dozen or so R2E2 I have opened have been monos except for one slightly poly.
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Mike says...
I thought R2E2 is poly bowen seedling from row R two down and row E two along of a bowen mango (KP) farm.This is in spite of having the colour,shape and poorer flavour of a mono.I don't know if polys can have mono offspring.
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Mike says...
I checked it out and indeed it is poly but with a small % of mono seeds.It is a 1982 progeny of kent rather than KP and was found in Bowen in row r2e2 of the mango farm.
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David says...
I understand that R2E2 is a Kent progeny. Definitely polyembryonic, I have germinated lots of them. They have a reputation for throwing a lot of off type seedlings though, as well as the odd mono.
Yes I think polys are popular, maybe because we are seeing more south east asian varieties which is the traditional home of polys. The are 3 new Australian bred varieties which are about to be released to the commercial growers and do not have marketing names yet. These are 2 monos and one poly. These are hybrids of Florida Monos and KP.
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4th March 2012 3:19pm
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David says...
John, you are right, Nuclear are the clones, the non clonal seedling is the zygotic one ( an out cross or self pollinated).
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4th March 2012 3:22pm
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Beth says...
I'm new to growing mangos. I have seedlings coming up. Most have one stem and a couple have two stems. The more I research the more confused I get...monos and polys, true-to-type, clones, nucellar, R2D2 (just kidding LOL). That's how crazy I'm getting.
I just want to keep it simple. I'm not interested in fast growth or fruiting quickly. I'm not in a hurry. Actually I just want to plant them in the ground when its time, protect them from bugs and elements, and let them grow and see what happens. The one-stemmed plants I assume I can just stick in the ground. But what do I do with the two-stemmed plants? Let it grow as it, or clip one of the stems, or does it matter? I have 13 little pots with a seed in each and plan to put in the ground in a 1/2 acre square lot to border the lot along three sides. Should I keep them all or prepare for separation anxiety with a few of them?
Expert advice needed please. Thank you all in advance for your help.
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Beth2
Southern US
3rd June 2012 3:49am
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Jenny says...
Hi Beth, in my extremely inexpert opinion it probably doesn't matter to the plant itself if you clip or separate or not, it's up to you and the visual effect you want. If only a couple of the trees you plant are twins it may look odd. Not knowing the variety of mango you planted, they are probably two separate seedlings. Maybe you could try carefully separating one of the pairs and see how you go. You may end up with a couple of bonus seedlings. The fruit you may get are a different issue, try reading this forum for more info on that! Hope this helps, others more knowledgeable may also offer an opinion.

As for my query, I also have a mango seedling (pictured) which I grew from an absolutely delicious Calypso mango at Christmas. I realise this will not likely be true to type but this is just for fun. I'm hoping someone out there can advise whether it's worth persisting as the leaves look so terrible and I am positive it's not my fault - there should be nothing wrong with the nutrition! It's in quality mix and I have given it all the usual good stuff - B&B, worm wee even extra trace elements about a month ago. A couple of the older leaves are normal and then the growth after that just went bad as you see. It's growing ok - there is new growth but it all seems to look like there's a deficiency. Or am I being impatient and it will come good?
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Jenny
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9th June 2012 3:15pm
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Db says...
Just an update regarding my seedling mango tree - yesterday I was surprised to see that my only 2 yr old self-grown SEEDLING mango tree is flowering (flowering bit late as compared to my other 2 grafted varieties which have already set tiny fruits) As I originally posted above in Feb this year, I'm growing it in pot and have not cared much, never fertilized, pot contains just garden soil and not any potting mix. Very happy to see flowers on such young seedling tree, sowtimes even grafted tree can take longer than 2 yrs i think. Hopefully it will set fruit in this season, now wait and watch game begins. I'll post photos once flower grows bigger in few weeks time.
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Db
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4th October 2012 8:00am
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Mike says...
Db you are pushing back the frontiers and throwing down the gauntlet to what is commonly expected of mango seedlings.
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Db says...
Mike, I didn't know seedling can start flowering in 2yrs, I thought it will take ages as compared to grafted. Am I missing something?
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Db
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denise1 says...
The main reason for the mango seedling fruiting young, in my opinion is that it is in a pot. It is probably also in a hot place.
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denise1
auckland NZ
4th October 2012 10:30am
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Db says...
Denise1, you could be right, it is mainly in pot in last 2 yrs (it was in ground for only 2-3 months in late last year but I pulled it back and growing again in pot since then).. and yes it is getting full sun... Anyway, I'm happy to see flowers, hopefully it will set fruit too.. It will be interesting to see how it tastes, I still remember eating that mango from which I used seed for this seedling...
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Db
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4th October 2012 10:45am
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denise1 says...
Fertile garden soils can be superior to potting mixes. I have seen it many times. Mangos respond well to it. Even a fertile well-draining clay will favour the mango. Another basic requirement is a dry hot time starting prior to flowering. If there is excess rain or humidity at that time, a good open space for air movement around the tree will allow drying out better and prevent settling of fungus etc. and high natural soil fertility helps. In NZ, I have seen trickle irrigation with good drainage bring great results , though other reports say not to .
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denise1
auckland NZ
4th October 2012 11:22am
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Mike says...
Maybe it is not due to the heat during Briz's winter that stimulated flowering.I have roasted seedlings in the tropical spring and summer without that response.It is genetically precocious but some environmental factor like being rootbound has stimulated even earlier flowering.High nutrient availability prior to flowering can actually promote vegetative growth.
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4th October 2012 6:10pm
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David_WM says...
As I understand it, winter chilling is a initiator of flowering, so I doubt that hot winters could cause it. I have a lot of seedlings at the moment that I planted at the end of summer in 2010. I did not expect it, but a lot of them are flowering now. I thought that it would be too young for seedlings to be flowering, but it is happening. I have both R2E2 and KP. We have had a fairly chilly winter with quite a few nights below 5 degrees. Daytime temperatures didn't get much above 20 degrees.
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DavidWM1
Perth
7th October 2012 1:05am
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denise1 says...
Thats how mangos are. After knowing heaps about them, they will surprise you and break all their rules. They can bring anything from dissappointment to delight and then surprise again. What is helpful in one case will hinder in another.
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denise1
auckland NZ
7th October 2012 1:20pm
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David says...
Hi Denise1, you are correct, once on a trip with the family up to Russell i observed a very healthy mango roughly 3m high under perspex at the mainland ferry port, did not observe any anthracnose on leaves either so the dry atmosphere was condusive to its success, you dont by any chance have any photos of mangoes flowering in NZ do you would love to see them as would other members.Thanks David
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David
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7th October 2012 7:23pm
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