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plant full size or dwarfs in retaining wall?

    14 responses

dansss starts with ...
Hello all, i'd like your advice on the following:

i have 2 retaining walls that are in the process of being erected (pictures attached) in western sydney area. one east of the garden and the other west. i plan on having fruit trees installed around springtime.

im unsure on whether or not to plant dwarfs or the regular type of fruit trees. id prefer the regular type and not dwarfs since im under the belief that i can get more fruit from regulars than dwarfs if soil and conditions are well-nursed.

now the wall width is: 900mm (from fence line-to-brick), and the depth is approx 400mm. Myplan is to fill the entire space with good soil so that the trees will thrive.

would like your suggestions/advice as to which of the two (regular or dwarf) would work effectively and safely considering ofcourse; any invasive roots which may damage the retaining wall.

thanks,

Daniel.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
  
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dan
 
31st January 2013 7:22pm
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M Nash says...
Personally Id just put in whatever citrus I fancy and just keep them trimmed to size. Ive not heard that citrus has bad root habits but even if you had a problem, The wall is clip locked and not mortared? Easy to pull apart and trim back naughty roots if it is
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MNash1
 
31st January 2013 8:25pm
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dansss says...
thanks for your reply M Nash.
Yes the blocks are the removable type (in case i wish to repair later).
and yes, that's also my plan. to keep the trees trimmed back and under control.

but still unsure of what trees are suited for walls, for example; if i were to plant a fig tree, or an apple? pomegranate etc... how and where could i learn more about the root systems of fruit trees to avoid and design catastrophes?

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dan
 
1st February 2013 12:50pm
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dansss says...
*bump*

anyone else to help on this?
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dan
 
1st February 2013 5:07pm
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MaryT says...
Google "tree root damage to retaining wall"; there's a fair bit of literature there...
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MaryT
Sydney
1st February 2013 5:20pm
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John I. says...
Dannsss,

Look for fruit trees suitable for planting in containers. Citrus and fig trees are good. You could also try some of the dwarf fruit trees from flemmings (peaches, nectarines, and apples). Olive trees are another.

You may also want to google espalier for ideas on how to keep them compact.
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JohnI
Melton
2nd February 2013 5:33pm
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dansss says...
thanks all. as stated in first post, hoping NOT to go with dwarfs. any other suggestions or ideas?
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dan
 
3rd February 2013 6:47pm
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Jason says...
The bloke at the local rubbish tip has an awesome nectarine in a box like that. which self seeded there. Its loaded too
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Jason
portland
4th February 2013 12:36am
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John I. says...
Don't write dwarfs off completely. I have a dwarf peach and dwarf nectarine. Both produce an abundance of fruit and both are over 2 meters tall. I also have apples from flemmings. They are around 3.5 meters but are compact (short horizontal branches).

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JohnI
Melton
4th February 2013 8:46am
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dansss says...
thanks for your response Jason. thats good to know :)

thanks for the info John. i would like to look into dwarfs a little more. could you elaborate on abundance a little more? taste? size? colour? etc...

thankyou.
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dan
 
4th February 2013 8:19pm
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John I. says...
The trees tend to go through cycles. Some years there is so much fruit that I have to remove some to prevent the branches from snapping. Other years there is much less fruit. When there is too much fruit the fruit tends to be quite small, otherwise it is the same size as you get in supermarkets. The flavour depends on how much sunlight the tree gets. More sun gives you larger sweeter fruit. My trees were planted on the south side of a fence so the fruit wasn't great until the tree grew above the fence. It did take several years to reach that height.

I'm not trying to convince you to go with dwarf fruit trees, I just wanted to let you know what I have experienced so that you can make a more informed decision. The advantage of a dwarf is that they tend to be more compact. This is usually achieved by grafting a standard fruit tree onto a dwarfing root stock. The tree can't grow bigger than the roots can support.

If you want peaches or nectarines I think dwarf are your best option for a small area. Other fruits like apples, pears, and citrus can be espaliered to keep them smaller and more compact.
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JohnI
Melton
5th February 2013 10:22am
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dansss says...
great info John. thankyou very much.
im likely to go dwarf for peaches, nects etc... as suggested. likewise; going espallier with citrus is another option for me.

many thanks all.
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dan
 
6th February 2013 10:59am
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elvis says...
Fig roots are very invasive.
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elvis
sd
7th May 2015 1:42am
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echinopora says...
A few things come to mind
1)If you use drainage (a good Idea) try not to use concrete rubble for drainage if you are planting citrus. In many areas concrete waste is the cheapest aggregate available and is used behind retaining walls. Citrus will not be a huge fan of all that lime dust. Stonefruit will not care.
2)Because there is a drainage layer recommended behind retaining walls the soil can become a little dry there, but this can be an advantage for things like rosemary, pomegranates, stonefruit that like a little drainage. (drainage is a funny thing, if your soil becomes compacted ie using a very high organic garden soil and the top course of the wall is higher than soil level you can still drown sensitive plants because you create a little pond. I have a spoon drain behind a wall that fills after even a short rain)
3)Most new orchards use dwarfing rootstocks because they are easier to maintain and have higher early yields + higher overall yields and fruit quality. Thinks like bat damage, wind rub and spraying become a real hassle with tall trees. Productivity has more to do with canopy cover and light interception than final tree size. With semi dwarfs you just plant them closer so final canopy will be the same.
4)Most dwarf stonefruit are genetic dwarfs caused by a shorter distance between leaf internodes. It makes them very pretty but a little prone to fungal disease in humid weather due to poor airflow. You will have to strip some leaves from the inner part of the tree and or spray them.



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terranora
7th May 2015 8:11am
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Original Post was last edited: 7th May 2015 8:07am
echinopora says...
Looking at the picture it looks like alot of shade as well. Deciduous trees might do better here as it might be a little too shady for citrus mid winter. Individual tastes vary but I think the following trees available at daleys would be a good bet- Mulberry (dwarf black or Red Shathoot, the red is sweeter with bigger fruit with a smaller tree), Any dwarf or semi dwarf stonefruit Angel peach is only semivigorous but will still be head high in a year, dwarf and sunset are tiny. Since they are on a wall already even a 1.5m dwarf will be overhead eventually. Nagawase Loquat on Quince is a nice tree. Nashi's or apples. Kaffir lime, tahitian lime and lemons are more shade tolerant than other citrus. Roots shouldn't be a problem with any of the above. Any of the Myrtle type things will be attractive and productive (guava, grumichama, cherry of the rio grande, pitomba, jaboticaba).

Check this video out. probably similar climate and situation to you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP7voRKFUoE
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terranora
7th May 2015 9:21am
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