Poor Man's Orange - What is it and is it the best citrus for making Marmalade?

Kath says...
The Honnefs surprise is the most similar fruit to the poor mans orange that we carry. The poor mans orange is also called the New Zealand Grapefruit or New Zealand gold.

nullumnews says...
Thanks Kath :)

Reason I was especially after Poor Mans Orange was the fellow who made the marmalade was adamant he wouldn't bother making marmalade again unless he could source the exact fruit.
I will let him know that there's little likelihood of getting hold of the real thing and that he would be better placed to substitute with something else.

I've have made Lime Marmalade a few times using Tahitian Limes and it was really rewarding, a very nice marmalade! I think I will knock up a batch sometime soon and give him a bottle, that might sway him ;)

Dave says...
I stumbled upon this forum while looking for information on Bergamot marmalade. The "Poorman orange," according to c. Ann Wilson in her book on marmalade was originally used for a rough skinned citrus (unidentified) but was later used in New Zealand for the "Flat Seville orange." That orange is identified as a common rootstock in some citrus web sites here in the U.S., but precisely how it differs from other strains of Seville orange, I do not know.

Elizabeth Hutchings says...
I am currently writing my biography (81 years)and have come to the years 1953 to '55 spent in Avondale, Auckland. I always made marmalade with our own New Zealand Grapefruit trees (often using our own lemons as well). And of course we ate them instead of oranges. DELICIOUS. I see on Google they are a cross between pummelo and mandarin. Sorry no picture.

Julie says...
It is hard to say what is the best citrus to use for marmalade, as it comes down to personal tastes.

I make marmalade from Navel oranges, mandarins, cumquats and Seville oranges. They are all popular with different people. My (grown-up) kids won't touch marmalade!

nullunews says...
Search the internet for other recipes if this one isn't to your liking.

Tip: if you don't alrady have one then buy yourself a Jam Thermometer, fairly cheap, under $10 usually, they make jam making easy.
So long as you get the amounts right with the ingredients then all you need to do is get the mix to 104C and at that moment it _will become_ jam! No guessing involved. It's all chemical on one level, once the mix reaches that temp, so long as you've met the ingredient amounts correctly it _will_ set as jam, too easy!

Tip: Use a search engine like google or yahoo and type in ---> lime marmalade recipe <--- HIT ENTER and you should have some other choices to look into.

Here's the recipe that I use.


Lime Marmalade (with a hint of ginger)


Ingredients

4 cups thinly sliced limes, halved and deseeded (8 medium sized fruit will be about right)
A good knob of ginger peeled and sliced into thin slivers
7 1/4 cups water
7 cups sugar (approx for this amount of limes)

Method

Combine lime slices, ginger slivers and the water into a large stainless steel saucepan or boiler.
Bring the mix to a boiling.
Reduce the heat and simmer, uncovered for 45 minutes to an hour or until the peels are very soft.

Remove from the heat and…
Measure out the cooked fruit and liquid using a measuring cup.
For every cup of fruit and liquid set aside one cup of sugar.
Now.. add the set aside sugar in with the boiled mixture and return the stirred mix to the heat source.
Bring the mixture to a boil.
Stir occasionally. Skim off the foam if you feel that’s necessary.
Let it cook to jam setting stage, 104C and it’s ready for bottling.

Immediately transfer the mixture into waiting hot (sterilized/well boiled) jars.
Wipe the jar threads clean and add the lids.
Place the sealed jars in boiling water for 5 minutes to complete the process.

Peggie says...
We came to New Zealand in 1957 and were giiven Poormans oranges. the marmalade was as good as the Seville we were used to. I have never been able to get them since. Surely some grower has a tree or two.
I am no longer permitted to eat grapefruit,hence the interest.

Adam says...
They tend to be called "New Zealand Grapefruit" now, so you might have better luck searching under this name. In Australia you can buy them from Perry's in South Australia.

Speedy says...
Don't discount the possibility of growing them (Poor man's oranges from Drummoyne) from seed.
They might just take a little more time to fruit than graft or cuttings ,but thats one of the ways of getting new (unique) cultivars,
and put your own name to it.
Frank Meyer died in 1918 but we all know the 'Meyer Lemon'.

Sour oranges would be as good as any I'd imagine.

http://users.kymp.net/citruspages/souroranges.html#aurantium

Speedy says...
True, I am aware that Meyer found it under cultivation in China, same as the jujube cvs. that he introduced to the US.
I thought as I was writing, that it's not exactly the same as raising the seedling of a new cultivar worthy of naming and further propagating, and that someone would pick me up on it.
probably not the best example.

Nonetheless, I feel that grafted fruit trees (of many species) aren't as important (for home gardens) as the nursery industry would like to have us believe.
So many times I've heard of people asking about a seedling avocado... orange ...apple ..apricot...peach..plum etc. that came up in the compost or wherever, to have a nurseryman or garden personality on radio or TV say "get rid of it , it'll never fruit".
Rubbish!
With the exception of mutations, most cultivars originated from seedlings.
I do understand the importance of grafted trees to commercial growers and the home gardeners who just want 'that madarin cv' and want fruit asap.

But if you're a bit adventurous and you've got a bit of space and patience
Have a go at seeds.

JR says...
I found a recipe in an old cookbook that is called Poor Man's orange marmalade or Pomelo marmalade. I have never heard of pomelos referred to by this name but my mother made marmalade from pomelos for years and it was suberb. The flavour was tart and the marmalde was very easy to make.

Speedy says...
in the late 1980's I heard of an old shaddock tree at the old Murray Downs Homestead across the river from Swan Hill.
It was an old tree back then , I dont know if it's still there or not.

Adam,
Off topic, but if you collect citrus you may be interested in a tree I grafted maybe 10yrs ago. It's a sweet lime. If you want I have scion wood or fruit(for seed) to offer if you're interested.
Hardly any acidity at all.
nice juice with addition of 20-25% lime juice.

Speedy says...
Hi Adam,
it does sound like the same clone.
Lvs. are very distinctive.

Do you have 'Page'(Paige?) Tangor by any chance?
I had a tree in NNSW but I dont have access to it any more.
great for juicing, tight skin, very sweet mandarin flavour.

amanda says...
Hi Adam - How does your west indian lime cope with your winter there?

Adam says...
Amanda, here in Melbourne with no frosts the West Indian Lime grows well in the Summer and sulks in the winter, dropping leaves. I have it in a pot, but don't protect it. A friend that lives in a much more frost prone part of the State puts his into a green house and has no problems, in fact his tree is always covered in limes.

Engall's Nursery (Australia) sells an "Indonesian Lime", which is the djerook leemo as far as I can determine, or something very similar.

Adam says...
Speedy, I've been able to find nothing about the "Australian lime", which is frustrating. Mine sets a large amount of fruit,which I have pinched off as the tree is too young at the moment. I've left one fruit on for the moment it looks like a Tahitian lime or maybe a Lime/Lemon hybrid.

I actually bought the Round Lime or Dooja from Daleys here. There are also on line sources for some of the other native citrus like the Russell River and Mt White Lime. The two citrus I am really after are the native dessert lime and a true Seville orange, rather then the smooth seville.

sue says...
can anyone tell me where I can buy australian blood limes?

Adam says...
My tree is very young, so maybe not the best. One unusual thing about it is that the bark is sort of gray and scaley, unlike any other citrus.

Here is a link to some more information.

http://www.citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/new_zealand_grapefruit.html

Adam says...
So superficially it looks like a Smooth Seville Orange, with large dar leaves that that obvious petioles. However the Poorman's Orange has these dark streaks on the younger limbs, which turn into this rough grayish-black scales on the older limbs. What I've shown here is the graft point, you can see the more normal smooth citrus bark texture below the graft point.

Pictures - Click to enlarge
Picture: 1	Picture: 2	Picture: 3

Julie`R says...
Excellent idea amanda! Some time ago I was keen to find out who had old fashioned varieties of fruit trees - ones no longer commercially available.

Backyard growers have different needs to commercial growers, and some of the older varieties had superior flavour.

I didn't have a lot of luck, but found a few, eg Stirling plum, Starking Delicious peach. I have Hale Haven peach, which to me is the best-tasting peach around. I have a small Fragar peach (white peach), but no fruit yet.

There is a guy in Chidlow who grows old varieties, mostly apples. But he is hard to get hold of and doesn't have email.

Big Kev says...
Looks like a fruit I have tasted, called ORANGE BERRY/Glycosmis citrifolia and Pentaphylla hope this helps

Julie says...
Hi Bernie. I don't actually have any info on Starking Delicious. I just heard someone talking about it, saying it was a variety no longer grown which was really nice. I am always interested in old varieties and keeping them going.

A guy who grows a lot of different fruit grafted it onto a peach seedling I grew from Fort Valley seed. Haven't had any fruit yet!

I will try and find out more, if I can get hold of him.

warwick says...
Hi, just read notes , i have engalls nursery not far from me , will go and ask a few questions , i have just read
receipe to be used , thus my interest , my book is an old 1917 cook book from s.a.

warwick

Rob says...
I have just stumbled upon this forum while researching the old tree in my yard. I just nailed how to make marmalade, after a few attempts, with the last of the fruit this season. It is the best marmalade I or anyone else I know has tasted. The tree is something like this:

http://www.citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/new_zealand_grapefruit.html

But the pith is thicker. The fruit is acid, very sweet, not bitter like a grapefruit and with few seeds. The tree is in flower again with tiny fruit already forming. It was almost dead when we moved in 18 months ago; overgrown, black with scale and distressed from lack of water. A bit of TLC has rewarded us with this fantastic fruit. The garden is probably very old. There is a truly ancient white peach tree as well which I thought was dead until a year ago when it surprised us with masses of blossoms followed by sweet fragrant fruit.

Yes. I have green fingers. I want to take some cuttings of the citrus tree to see if will grow in southern Victoria. The house is rented but I don't want to lose this fruit. If anyone wants cuttings please let me know.

Cheers,

Rob

Rob says...
Hi Adam,

I still have a few of the fruit here in South Yarra if you want to look at them. They are decidedly rough skinned and have a very distinctive taste and scent. Email me, rob@thermid.com. I might even be able to scare up some marmalade.

The seeds have only one set of cotlydons so I suppose the variety is monoembryonic. We are going to try to graft some specimens and see if they grow in Warrnambool. Can you offer some advice on rootstocks and grafting?

I am not sure if the tree is grafted. It is very hardy. It has its roots in heavy clay that stayed moist until the end of summer, then it dropped most of its fruit.

Cheers,

Rob

belinda says...
I will be moving to brisbane in march and would like to plant some oranges on my property. I would also like to plant a cherry and an apple tree. I will be using the fruit for baking, smoothies, etc. I have no knowledge about gardening, so can anyone help me with what type of orange trees to plant? Thanks in advance.

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recher says...
I thought for sure my poor man's orange came from daleys but if not must have been lyle wright but i still think daleys

didnt daleys carry it once upon a time?


it sucks as dessert fruit.

guess it makes good marmalade but so do several others

Jason says...
I reckon Brisbane is well out of range for Cherries, Apples maybbbbe if you get a super low chill one and pull the leaves off to force it into some sleep.

But Banana and Mango smoothies... can't complain about that, that reminds me that I'm still not game to try an Avocado smoothie even after 10 years thinking about it

Julie says...
Wayne, I think you mean 'Seville orange'. From what I've read here, they are quite different.

Sevilles apparently grow true from seed, so don't need grafting.

Julie says...
I have a tree for marmalade, but have never wanted to taste one. They are called 'bitter orange' for a reason!

I think they are rare because so few people have the time (or care) to make marmalade. But true lovers of marmalade are dedicated - one lady travels about 40 ks every year to collect my oranges. They are never in the shops.

alicia says...
does anyone know where i can get indonesian lime and limequat...

I found indonesian lime in engall's but they dont deliver to melbourne...

amanda says...
Can we please change the photo on this topic? I am getting really tired of looking at this chick..!? :D

MaryT says...
I find the best to be the true Seville Orange, not the smooth variety. Cumquat is another favourite if you don't like the bitterness of the Seville. Otherwise I like to mix them (e.g. lemon, lime & cumquat w/wo ginger).

Pictures - Click to enlarge
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Zpete says...
Hi people, I am an avid citrus lover.
My preference for eating and marmalade is NZ Poor Man's orange. I moved house some years ago, lemons, kaffir lime, mandarine all bought from nurseries. I find oranges so plentiful and cheap $ or less a kilo I have never planted them. NZ, Kerikeri oranges, not the best looking sizewise as Aust naval, Californian naval or Sth African Outspan, but far superior in taste, sweetness, and juice. I lived in Victoria for 9 years and once thought Aust oranges tops, sadly not now.
The real reason for my posting is to find out how to graft orange, am I able to use a lemeon tree and have both on the same tree. My dad, in Mt Waverley had, believe me, 9 varieties of plum on one tree, hard to believe until you saw them blossom and fruit.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ken Linder says...
I don;t know if their tree listing is current by you could try here (if they will ship to you)

http://www.perrysfruitnursery.com.au/our-trees.html