48 responses
| About the Author Desperate!! Newcastle 3rd November 2011 5:40pm #UserID: 5994 Posts: |
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| About the Author Fruity Tootie Sydney 3rd November 2011 7:41pm #UserID: 5884 Posts: View All Fruity Tootie's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Kathy says... I knock the sting bugs off the tree into a bucket (that's easy) - then put them on the ground and stamp on them (rubber boots)- equally easy - except for the awareness that I am killing them. Some say to drown the stink bugs in the bucket - but that way seems more cruel. I'd love to know a humane way to kill them. I have stink bugs on my Tahitian lime at the moment and none on my mandarin. The Tahitian lime is a much healthier tree - maybe they choose the best food??? Or maybe there's something in the lime tree they love??? What trees do you have stink bugs on? Kathy | About the Author Kathy Malecy, Qld 4th November 2011 6:56am #UserID: 5954 Posts: View All Kathy's Edible Fruit Trees |
Chris says... I consider the welfare of stink bugs (aka Bronze Orange Bugs) too when I kill them. I look for the method that gives me the greatest satisfaction: a Redhead gas lighter. Their native host is the finger lime, but they prefer heavy foliaged trees, with lots of sappy growth. I have none on my lemon but my neighbours' neglected lemonade tree is where they migrate from. Control them in winter by spraying with a soap spray to kill the overwintering eggs. At this time of the year, get a stick and knock them off in the juvenile stage (when green or orange and visible). They do not fly in the juvenile stage, so are easier to control before they morph into the black flying adult stage. | About the Author Chris Sydney 4th November 2011 9:06am #UserID: 2281 Posts: |
| About the Author Kathy Malecy, Qld 4th November 2011 11:50am #UserID: 5954 Posts: View All Kathy's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Kathy Malecy, Qld 4th November 2011 11:51am #UserID: 5954 Posts: View All Kathy's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Chris says... Kathy, when you spray next year ensure that you get it on the underside of the leaves. That's where the eggs are laid. To be honest the spined citrus bug is more of a worry. Only a few of these can cause real damage to the fruit. They suck the juice out leaving brown patches in the inside and disappear by the time the fruit is ripe. They leave no obvious damage from the outside. What's more they are green, making them hard to spot amongst the leaves. And they generally target citrus when they are green. Oh, and they also release a stinky caustic liquid. | About the Author Chris Sydney 4th November 2011 12:39pm #UserID: 2281 Posts: |
| About the Author Desperate!! Newcastle 4th November 2011 5:27pm #UserID: 5994 Posts: |
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Kathy says... YIKES desperate - no wander you are desperate! IF you can see them - follow the advice knock them off with a stick into a bucket. Then kill. Avoid getting the stink in your eyes or skin. Are your trees large - or just new? Are your trees beautifully healthy? I guess the fruit is falling off. Hopefully you'll get them before too much has gone - last year I was left with only 3 limes on my tree! AND Chris - thanks for telling me where to spray!! kathy | About the Author Kathy Malecy, Qld 4th November 2011 5:41pm #UserID: 5954 Posts: View All Kathy's Edible Fruit Trees |
Kathy says... Just thinking more: I wander if the stink bugs like my lime because it has so much lush growth (thought inspired by Chris). AND I'm wandering if that is caused by the fact that I gave it blood and bone with phosphate added in. What leads me along these thoughts is that my neighbour has only a few stink bugs in his tree - but no real damage. His tree is much more established than mine; I also think he probably only gives it manure each spring - so the foliage is more strong. His tree has a huge amount of fruit despite the few stink bugs. And of course my mandarin has no stink bugs - and is not lush (due to being planted where it gets too much water if it rains). So my plan for next year is: 1. spray with soapy water as chris suggested - in winter; 2. only put manure around the tree - no blood and bone - and definitely no phosphate. Any thoughts? Kathy | About the Author Kathy Malecy, Qld 4th November 2011 7:35pm #UserID: 5954 Posts: View All Kathy's Edible Fruit Trees |
| About the Author BJ Brisbane 4th November 2011 8:23pm #UserID: 3270 Posts: View All BJ's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Chris Sydney 4th November 2011 10:44pm #UserID: 2281 Posts: |
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Chris says... I tried for a change (instead of knocking them off with a stick), 10ml neem oil and 5ml horticultural soap per litre of water. And it worked! They didn't drop dead instantaneously though. Now I don't know whether an oil spray would have the same result or if there's something active in the neem oil. And if you are going to buy neem oil, buy it online, not at the B store. | About the Author Chris 13th January 2012 11:23pm #UserID: 2281 Posts: |
Chris says... I tried for a change (instead of knocking them off with a stick), 10ml neem oil and 5ml horticultural soap per litre of water. And it worked! They didn't drop dead instantaneously though. Now I don't know whether an oil spray would have the same result or if there's something active in the neem oil. And if you are going to buy neem oil, buy it online, not at the B store. | About the Author Chris 13th January 2012 11:31pm #UserID: 2281 Posts: |
Mike says... My place is a carnival of stink bugs,with fruit spotting bugs,bean bugs,tea leaf bugs,melon bugs,green solanum bugs of 2 types, and about 6 other serious offenders.One type even attacks my neem.There must kg's of bug paste in the yard from all I've squashed.I will certainly try Chris's recipe but I have never heard of horticultural soap. | About the Author Mike Cairns 14th January 2012 8:49am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
Mike says... A few weeks ago I lashed out and tried spraying with carbaryl as interventionist action was needed.Carbaryl seems to be milder and more vertebrate friendly than other insecticides.I did not want my ducks and geese to come into contact with it.It is all high 5's and laughter in the bug community about that effort and I don't want to use anything stronger. | About the Author Mike Cairns 14th January 2012 9:00am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
| About the Author MaryT Sydney 14th January 2012 9:09am #UserID: 5412 Posts: View All MaryT's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Brendan Mackay, Q 14th January 2012 9:14am #UserID: 1947 Posts: |
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| About the Author MaryT Sydney 14th January 2012 10:13am #UserID: 5412 Posts: View All MaryT's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Chris 14th January 2012 10:50am #UserID: 2281 Posts: |
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au0rey says... I got the green sting bugs too, first time and I found them on my eggplants and tomato plants, so I guess they attack a wide range of plants. I read that nothing much can be used to treat this problem, so all I do is pick them and quickly stamp (as they fly off) them under my shoes...gosh really smelly stuff they are! | About the Author au0rey 15th January 2012 8:43pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
Andrew says... There is a an insecticide called MaxGuard. It's in a red bottle and can be bought at Bunnings and Woolworths. I spray my lemon tree and within 30 minutes, the bugs are dropping off the tree. By the next day, my lemon tree is free of them, and there are million dead stink bugs on the ground around the tree. Better yet, the product keeps the bugs away for a couple of months. | About the Author Andrew Sydney 24th January 2012 8:12pm #UserID: 6450 Posts: |
Chris says... Pays to read the label Andrew: http://www.scottsaustralia.com.au/Defender/Defender_Maxguard DO NOT USE ON FOOD PLANTS. A potent systemic (0.05g/L). Not on my citrus. | About the Author Chris Sydney 24th January 2012 9:15pm #UserID: 2281 Posts: |
| About the Author john 25th January 2012 7:15am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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amanda says... Probably better off with the real nicotene (we have stubbies for ashtrays and save up the butts, fill them with water and pour the solution down ants nests) I am having a look at whether or not I can use a local Nicotiana plant as tobacco substitute (although one pack may go far - haven't checked dilution rate yet) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101027124734.htm | About the Author amanda Geraldton, 400km North of Perth 25th January 2012 8:58am #UserID: 2309 Posts: View All amanda's Edible Fruit Trees |
Mike says... This group of insecticides has been used on fruit and veg extensively for at least since the 90's.Its advantages atre that it is focussed on insect neural pathways with low mammalian toxicity.Because it is so insect specific it can be used in very low concentrations.It is way better than many older insecticides and I doubt there are any cases of serious poisoning in humans unless they guzzled litres of it.I don't like pesticides and would always advise to avoid them but go for those with low mammalian toxicity,low risk of endocrine disruption instead of old baddies on their way out. | About the Author Mike Cairns 25th January 2012 8:31pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
amanda says... Which group Mike - the neo-nicotines (got the spelling right this time john :) - or the actual nicotines? I don't get it - why don't we just use the natural nicotine? See the link above - looks like they are coming back...? (all the smokers are dying..so there is now a surplus of tobacco..) Ironic really. What's old is new again. ;-) | About the Author amanda Geraldton, 400km North of Perth 26th January 2012 7:04am #UserID: 2309 Posts: View All amanda's Edible Fruit Trees |
Mike says... Amanda neo-nicotinoids are way less harmfull to mammals than organo phosphates,are considered remarkabley insect specific and can be effective at very low concentrations.The dark side of these systemics is that they kill insect pollinators and may have wiped out a significant proportion of the worlds bees.Bad news?....you bet.Nicotene,caffeine,THC and 1000 other substances we use are natural insecticides produced by plants for defence. | About the Author Mike Cairns 26th January 2012 8:13am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
john says... Hmmm. not sure about the lack of mammalian toxicity. As the neuro muscular junction of mammalian skeletal muscle is blocked by nicotine I imagine it will be interfered with by the neo-nicotinoids as well. Why would the MaxGuard say not for food crops? If I had a choice I'd use an acute poison such as the organophosphate Maldison rather than the persistent neo-nicotinoids that seem to go on killing for more than a year. | About the Author john 26th January 2012 9:29am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
Mike says... John the key element is the differential toxicity to insects and their nervous systems as compared to mammals allowing very low concentrations to be used.Drink 10l of water and it will 'poison' you.They are currently used on fruit and veg. all over the world so I am not sure about the maxguard product reasoning.It is that they have been considered much safer than organophosphates for humans that has hastened their spread.All insecticides have risks to non-target organisms and people and I was of the belief from what I have previously read that neonicotenoids present a lower risk to people.I not sure if it is the same mode of action as nicotine but I doubt it is.I had better check it out. | About the Author Mike Cairns 26th January 2012 10:06am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
john says... I'm not amenable to the idea that insect's nervous systems are far removed from ours.Organophosphates work by inhibiting the degradation of acetylcholinesterase ;this in turn causes a depolarising block of the neuromuscular junction and other synapses controlled by acetylcholine. Exactly the same thing happens in our nerv. systems and can be observed in OP poisoning. If there are differences between insect's N.S. and ours it is not on the basis of acetylcholine. Nicotine acts exactly on acetylcholine receptors. | About the Author john 26th January 2012 1:59pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
Mike says... John you better hit the books because it is basic physiology when considering selectivity of action.Look at the works of Matsuda.Check the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor subtype selectivity corresponding to the distinctive D-loop of insects.Don't generalise and say it is the same for everything and equally dangerous. | About the Author Mike Cairns 26th January 2012 2:25pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
Mike says... Plant defences are pretty particular about their targets which are usually insects.If a substance or physical structure targets and insect stomach sieve plate then it probably won't adversely impact people.Selectivity in insecticides is about targeting insect specific physiology as well and this is part of the reason why old clunsy mode insecticides are often worse for people. | About the Author Mike Cairns 26th January 2012 3:02pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
amanda says... Thanks for the insights Mike. Sometimes it's better the devil we know then? The bee toxicity problem is of concern though. I doubt there will ever be a perfect solution (maybe picking off the stink bugs by hand...hmnnn!? :D I am about to use spinosad for the first time (acute f/fly problem) and decided to have a read up..it was pretty enlightening and I am glad I did. But even that is highly toxic to bees too. I will just have to be very careful not to spray where they are foraging. Fortunately the trees with fruit - don't have flowers on them also... | About the Author amanda Geraldton, 400km North of Perth 26th January 2012 3:08pm #UserID: 2309 Posts: View All amanda's Edible Fruit Trees |
Mike says... Amanda that is right and always read up about the poison you are using.Many are in fact less harmful to you than you might suspect but more harmful to the environment than you may suspect.I could not help but throw johns' line back at him.He may well be in possession of new information and if that is the case there are loads of pharmacology journals and especially Invertebrate Neuroscience Journal that he should alert to this information. | About the Author Mike Cairns 26th January 2012 3:34pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
john says... I'm afraid I disagree with your simplified schema of toxicity of neo-nics. One can give direct quotes from Google and still not "get it" For that you need to understand nuance. The conversation is becoming combative and point scoring. I'll go with my original statement (a nuanced one) namely that I prefer acute toxicity of OP's which I then know how to mitigate than a persistent poison such a neo-nics. Especially when I know there is a class effect of drugs and never a perfect discrimination, as you suggest, down different but closely related pathways in insects and mammals.(just call it wisdom) | About the Author john 26th January 2012 6:29pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
Mike says... Wrong answer John,I repeat look at the science and the references if you have not worked in this area before or perhaps share that wisdom with the scientists who have a different perspective.Brush up on insect physiology and you will see very good specificity has been achieved.I am not point scoring or combative but OP's are worse for people.I did google to check what I had learnt before because I wanted to check my facts and not make stuff up like you. | About the Author Mike Cairns 26th January 2012 6:50pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
| About the Author john 27th January 2012 3:10pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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Mike says... John I framed that response along the lines of how you have replied to me before and I have done it with no one else.Ok lets be civil from here on in.Back on topic....while neonics might have a half life of a month in field conditions and be targeted, their concentation in pollen is ringing alarm bells.OP's like malathion do have toxic breakdown products,have irreversible neural impacts,cumulative effects with ongoing exposure even at low doses and are particularly toxic to foetuses and in the environment. | About the Author Mike Cairns 27th January 2012 5:23pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
Mike says... It looks like the other rotenone thread has disappeared in the last few minutes.What I should have added is that the dust can have nasty effects on mucous membranes even if pretty mild at 'garden'concentrations.Repeated exposure to heavy concentrations such as in the US as it is used as a piscicide can have neural impacts and parkinsons like symptoms.This however is a world of difference from the use of the garden dust. | About the Author Mike Cairns 27th January 2012 5:31pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
| About the Author Mike Cairns 27th January 2012 5:41pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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| About the Author Mike Cairns 27th January 2012 7:38pm #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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amanda says... BTW Chris - we having major street riots in the near area here - all due to "social" network sites..? All adults BTW...? Stabbings? Bashings? etc..? It's very sad to read a post like the previous to be honest... Google Mullewa street riots - if u think this is just to do with "kids"...? A snapshot: "Fed up with growing feuds, fuelled by taunts and threats on social media platforms such as Facebook and Diva Chat, the Mid West Anti-violence Action Group was launched this week" Some people tread a very fine line thinking that they are "anonymous" on the internet. My kids primary school handles bullying better than this Forum. As Ghandi said - BE the change u want to see in the world.... :) | About the Author amanda Geraldton, 400km North of Perth 28th January 2012 2:34am #UserID: 2309 Posts: View All amanda's Edible Fruit Trees |
MaryT says... This is not about stink bugs so perhaps should be a new topic... but Amanda I can see that you are hurt and distressed about comments made against you so maybe we should have given you more support. I am sorry that it's come to this. However, many things have also been said about the other party that is far from complimentary. I think we stay out of it in the belief that it is the best way to 'keep it short'; the more people wage in the longer and uglier it gets, I believe. People who don't like each other can stop talking to each other and that is what I would like to see. Both of you have contributed in a positive way to this forum and I hope will continue to do so. Let's stay on the topic and don't get personal, please - EVERYONE! One way is not to use the person's name or the pronoun YOU. | About the Author MaryT Sydney 28th January 2012 8:40am #UserID: 5412 Posts: View All MaryT's Edible Fruit Trees |
| About the Author john 28th January 2012 9:29am #UserID: 0 Posts: |
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| About the Author MaryT Sydney 28th January 2012 9:33am #UserID: 5412 Posts: View All MaryT's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author amanda Geraldton, 400km North of Perth 28th January 2012 12:42pm #UserID: 2309 Posts: View All amanda's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author MaryT Sydney 28th January 2012 12:45pm #UserID: 5412 Posts: View All MaryT's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author snottiegobble Bunbury/Busso (smackin the middle) 28th January 2012 6:03pm #UserID: 3468 Posts: |
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