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Willughbeia angustifolia

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ivepeters starts with ...
Willughbeia angustifolia & W.sarawakensis
Any major/important difference between the two ?
Any comments appreciated.
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ivepeters
CARINDALE,4152,QLD
24th February 2015 11:38am
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The poster formerly known as... says...
sarawakensis is grenade shaped and is said to be sweeter, while angustifolia is round and has a bit of tart in with the sweetness. Both massive lianas. I'm hoping to get some action from a few sarawakensis seeds that came through not long ago.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Keperra
24th February 2015 11:51am
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denise1 says...
Here is a similar account in different words. W. angustifolia is the smallest but nice sweet/sour balance whereas the W. sarawakensis has a large pear shape that is sweet but somewhat bland. I suppose both worth growing. As they are quite lofty I wonder if they would grow on a trellis system similar to that used for kiwifruit.
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denise1
auckland NZ
24th February 2015 12:03pm
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denise1 says...
Here is a similar account in different words. W. angustifolia is the smallest but nice sweet/sour balance whereas the W. sarawakensis has a large pear shape that is sweet but somewhat bland. I suppose both worth growing. As they are quite lofty I wonder if they would grow on a trellis system similar to that used for kiwifruit.
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denise1
auckland NZ
24th February 2015 12:05pm
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ivepeters says...
Thanks for the info.

Got some W.angustifolia seeds yesterday, part of a superbowl bet.
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ivepeters
CARINDALE,4152,QLD
24th February 2015 12:42pm
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JohnMc1 says...
We should swap cuttings in the future ive, I have just sown some W.sarawakensis.
Anyone know their minimum temp requirements?
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
24th February 2015 1:01pm
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sternus1 says...
John send my your address when you can too I can't find it in my inbox.
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sternus1
Australia
24th February 2015 1:04pm
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ivepeters says...
Hope they all sprout, the more I can give away.
Only ever keep two of everything ,just in case I kill it.

Currently have spares of 5cm tall of

4 'blue' Jab Myrciaria vexator
2 Hybrid Jab Myrciaria cauliflora X
3 Sapodilla Sawo Manila seedlings

This week only 4 MARMELADA(Purui) Alibertia edulis have popped out,early yet.

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ivepeters
CARINDALE,4152,QLD
24th February 2015 1:20pm
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sternus1 says...
Lol I mean his actual house address, I have to send him some seeds.
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sternus1
Australia
24th February 2015 2:06pm
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Original Post was last edited: 24th February 2015 2:06pm
echinopora says...
What do you want for the hybrid jabs?
Rob
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terranora
24th February 2015 5:27pm
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sternus1 says...
Vexator or false jaboticaba is a good score for anybody. Seeds aren't cheap. I'd put the bite on you if I had the room Ive.
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sternus1
Australia
24th February 2015 5:34pm
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JohnMc1 says...
I have an affinity to Jabs since mine fruited for the first time last season. I have some red Hybrids growing well, thanks to Mike, not sure if they are the fast to fruit variety, only time will tell. One of those 'blue' Jab Myrciaria vexator would be an excellent addition, ive, do you have a wish list? I have A. Squamosa sourced from east Java with two beautiful fruit not far off ripening. I could post up a pic of the fruit when it ripens for enticement purposes.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
24th February 2015 5:43pm
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echinopora says...
Had to google the blue. Very pretty indeed. Sternus are you growing this one?
Rob
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terranora
24th February 2015 5:50pm
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sternus1 says...
Nah, I don't like jaboticaba or similar fruit. I don't really go in for the ultra obscure tropical stuff, I mainly chase rare cv's of popular tropicals like mangoes, lychees, etc. some Asian stuff, like bayberries. At this point it has to be something really, really special to earn a place in my patch, in the ground at least.
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sternus1
Australia
24th February 2015 5:57pm
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MIke T1 says...
I have a few vexators (blue) growing and they look like Ficus Benjamina.Red hybrid is a dwarf and the other side of the family is the green jaboticaba.Escarlate,phitrantha,coronata,trunciflora are the ones I have in pots that I value the most.Various Plinia like cambuca,rivularis and several from Ecuador look like they are well worthwhile also.I have a number germinating now.
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MIke T1
cairns
24th February 2015 6:20pm
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MIke T1 says...
I am planting Willughbeia seeds tonight so I sure hope they come up.
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MIke T1
cairns
24th February 2015 6:22pm
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ivepeters says...
Mike, I too always hope something comes up, used any special mix ?
John if only I had something larger than a 620 block. Full to capacity. Your more than welcome to whatever you want.
My addy is casteoffatoptusnetdotcomdotau.
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ivepeters
CARINDALE,4152,QLD
24th February 2015 7:10pm
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MIke T1 says...
I just use potting mix of good quality IP.I am trying to be more selective as potting up lots of seeds and wondering what to do with many plants could be overkill.Ants are my main problem.
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MIke T1
cairns
24th February 2015 8:18pm
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MIke T1 says...
Mine are W.sarawakensis which are supposed to be the better of the 2 common species.
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MIke T1
cairns
24th February 2015 8:19pm
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sternus1 says...
Germinating seeds in potting mix is a bad idea. For a variety of reasons. Use pure coir instead. It retains water without becoming saturated and when your seeds germinate you can just transplant the who thing root mass and all into a new medium without incident as its neutral ph.

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sternus1
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24th February 2015 8:48pm
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ivepeters says...
I'll try that out next time, been using seed raising mix with perlite 1/2 & 1/2.
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ivepeters
CARINDALE,4152,QLD
24th February 2015 9:10pm
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JohnMc1 says...
I plant and grow nearly everything in coco-coir. The fruiting sugar apples are still in pure coco-coir. All the way from seed to fruit, being fed a soilless nutrient mix. Super sensitive seedlings like red bayberries are in coco with zero nutrient supplied, nothing but tank water. I have lost most of those suckers to the smallest amounts of liquid fert.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
24th February 2015 9:42pm
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Slicko says...
Hey Ivepeters, I can't believe that you have so much in a 620 block.. must be a little house or no grass in the backyard lol.

JohnMc1, I have been using coir for the past year but I find with striking seed in it the fertilizer added to it means I don't get the seed strike that I expect as I suspect that it burns the emerging roots. Perhaps I should wash it before I commit seed to it?
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Slicko
CARINDALE,4152,QLD
24th February 2015 10:41pm
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ivepeters says...
Have a few more fruit trees than those listed, just a few. LOL
Old weatherboard 3beds & 1 bath.
Grass is overrated ,a water hungry beast.
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ivepeters
CARINDALE,4152,QLD
24th February 2015 10:56pm
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JohnMc1 says...
Slicko, I think they released one coco product with a slow release added, I wouldn't use that one for seed raising. There is a couple of things that don't agree with coco but I'm working on it. The Dwarf Cashew is one, just can't get the colour into the leaves no matter what I do. Zinc and manganese is helping but I'm going to pot one up into regular potting mix to see if anything improves.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
25th February 2015 8:00am
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sternus1 says...
John,

I was recommended this stuff by a hydro store. It's designed to work specifically in coir. Aussie made and pretty cheap. I'll be using it on my semi hydro dragon grove which is getting close to being finished ( see pics below link).
http://aquagardening.com.au/product/bloom-coco-flower-ab/

Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Picture: 2

Picture: 3

Picture: 4
  
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sternus1
Australia
25th February 2015 8:09am
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JohnMc1 says...
If you are going to use that mix you will have to get this:
http://aquagardening.com.au/?s=truncheon
I wouldn't use bloom, go for grow till next August then start with the bloom formula.
As a starter you won't get into any trouble if you start at 30ml A+B/9 litres. That will give you dilution rate of around 14cF, which is a use daily not burn mix for DF. As you get use to the dilation rates you can add more or less according to the plant response.
I make my own part A and B concentrate from my own formula. Costs around $5/50L, well, not even that, I was handed 100's of kilo's of chemicals from a mate who closed up his commercial hydro tomato farm.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
25th February 2015 7:06pm
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sternus1 says...
Wow.

And here I thought this was going to be easy!

Ok so no bloom. What grow solution so you recommend? Do you have a link? The pots have no bottoms so it's a run to waste type deal.
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sternus1
Australia
25th February 2015 7:22pm
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Original Post was last edited: 25th February 2015 7:22pm
JohnMc1 says...
Yeah run to waste is the cleanest, and saves power if you are timer pumping from a reservoir. Half my set-ups are run to waste, but minimal. Enviro's would pick a fight with you though.. If you have to buy your nutes, one is as good as the other, personal choice there's very little difference between the most expensive and the cheapest on the shelf. They all work very well, and forget about buying bloom, when the time comes, just add 10 to 20% more part B of your grow.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
25th February 2015 7:57pm
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Markmelb says...
Iv been using 30cf for my Autopot setup for cucumbers - only has female self pollinating flowers - had so many made a 80%cuc and 20%tomato relish - very Tasty
Recipe -------
Cucumber Ketchup
ripe cucumbers
1 red capsicum, chopped
2 cups sugar
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1 cup chopped onion
4 cups vinegar
1 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon cloves
1/8 teaspoon pepper

Peel enough cucumbers to make 2 litres after seeds and soft centres have been removed. Add onion, capsicum, and enough water to prevent sticking. Cook slowly, stirring frequently, until tender. Add remaining ingredients. Cook slowly, stirring frequently, until thick.
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Markmelb
MT WAVERLEY,3149,VIC
25th February 2015 8:43pm
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Original Post was last edited: 25th February 2015 8:42pm
peter30001 says...
hi sternus
time to put your thinking cap on and tell us what mistake youve made with your d/fruit setup.
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peter30001
adelaide
26th February 2015 8:02am
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sternus1 says...
Well, you tell me. But I'll address some issues:

A) low light in cooler months. Not sure if this will be a problem yet or not. I've got some fruiting in virtual total shade. If it is a problem I'll cut some limbs off the eucalyptus.

B) if you're thinking they'll fall over, think again. Those posts are filled with liquid concrete with rebar running the whole length and set into the hole and are set three feet into the ground( concreted in).When they are totally finished they will be supported at 4 intervals around each pot with aluminium pickets anchored 4 feet into the ground. This will also stop the rims tipping over due to uneven growth as I'll swage wire between the pickets and the rims. Everything is stainless or aluminium and nothing is vulnerable to water damage. The bolts set inside the concrete are m12 stainless and run 100 mm deep. The pressure exerted on them will be downward force and they are never going to pull out-- take it up with the master concrete I consulted when doing this.

C) spacing is fine. There's actually about three metres of clearance between each row of trellises. I want them to grow into one another a little bit but also want to keep each variety well manicured.

D) I don't care if they stick to the pipe with aerial roots as these do nothing anyway. There are countless ways of tethering them as they grow and when mature they support themselves anyway.

E) I'm growing cosmic Charlie, neon, natural mystic, makisupa. Dark star, Arizona purple, rixford, zamorano, condor,Halley's Comet, physical graffiti, purple haze, American beauty, frankies red, pink panther, voodoo child, sin Espinas, red Jaina, Florida red sweet, Costa Rican sunset etc.

So by all means enlighten me.
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sternus1
Australia
26th February 2015 8:44am
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Original Post was last edited: 26th February 2015 8:39am
JohnMc1 says...
Yes I'm a massive fan of the auto-pot system. Expense is the only drawback. I have just converted a grafted Soursop into the auto-pot system, something not for the faint hearted, because you have to wash the roots completely free of the soil medium it came in. I'm experimenting with a mix of medium sized clay balls and the Auto-pot only because the soursop will outgrow it's container in a very short period of time. I will need to eventually move it on to a hydro "monster system", sort of future proofing the container size.
DF go ballistic in these systems. You would naturally think, huh? a cactus with it's roots submersed in water? They absolutely love it, and I think they could be permanently kept in a 12" autopot, and I know how big they get.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
26th February 2015 8:47am
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sternus1 says...
So John do you have an idea what this guy is talking about in terms of this great mistake I've made building these? I can't think of anything serious.

What do you think will go wrong with them? Feedback appreciated.
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sternus1
Australia
26th February 2015 8:55am
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Waterfall says...
I don't think he is saying you have made a mistake, just if you were doing it again what would you do differently.

That was my impression anyway.
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Waterfall
Waterfall
26th February 2015 10:24am
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sternus1 says...
Well, I can't think of anything at all really. So far there doesn't seem to be any downsides. I expect these to last pretty much forever. Perhaps a large tree branch will fall on one or something but if that happens I will just reattach the crown.
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sternus1
Australia
26th February 2015 10:31am
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Original Post was last edited: 26th February 2015 10:30am
Waterfall says...
I need to do something at my place very soon, all my dragonfruit have grown very fast this summer and it won't belong before the pots tip over due to the weight.
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Waterfall
26th February 2015 11:12am
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sternus1 says...
You can make one of these for about 100$ dollars assuming you don't have to buy a hand sauger. You can mix the concrete yourself easily, you really just need cement and sand and can literally just pour it down the pipe.

This is a new grove, I have several other much larger mature and producing plants. I just wanted this grove to plant out the worlds best after years of collecting.

I still have more to plant out but that will require another grove.
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sternus1
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26th February 2015 12:04pm
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Original Post was last edited: 26th February 2015 12:02pm
Waterfall says...
I have to put mine on a paved area as its the only space left. I was given 2 large glazed ceramic pots around the 150L size. I'm thinking of building the trellis out of timber so it is around the pots and resting on the pavers so there is no soil contact but then using pvc pipe like yours for the DF to climb up to the trellis.
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Waterfall
Waterfall
26th February 2015 1:40pm
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sternus1 says...
Actually the kind of space you have available is ideal. All you'd need is a steel post ( you can buy power coated ones which look cool) with some brackets welded to the bottom and you could Dynabolt this directly into the concrete. It would never move.

Slipping the ceramic pot over would be tricky, well cutting the bottom out would be. No idea how this would be done, I guess you'd need a tile cutter. Maybe there a bit you can get for a grinder I'm not sure.

If you can get away with not using wood than do it honestly... Especially things like treated pine which is soft and full of nasty chemicals which leech into soil over time.
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sternus1
Australia
26th February 2015 2:15pm
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Original Post was last edited: 26th February 2015 2:15pm
Waterfall says...
It is pavers though, not concrete so I don't think you could dynabolt to that.

I need to draw a picture to explain it better, the wood would not be touching any soil, it would just be like a rectangular frame resting on the pavers, almost like a work bench without the top. Then just bury the pvc pipe in the soil in the large pots and have it attach to the wooden frame at the top.
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Waterfall
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26th February 2015 2:24pm
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sternus1 says...
Yep I get you. That will work.

I sometimes forget that wood lasts longer in NSW than Queensland owing to the climatic difference.

The frame will have to be pretty hefty though. How are you going to stop them blowing over when they are mature?
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sternus1
Australia
26th February 2015 3:17pm
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Waterfall says...
They will be sitting behind my 2m tall polycarbonate windbreak.
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26th February 2015 3:27pm
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sternus1 says...
Ok. So how are you going to secure the pipe to inside the pot-- or is the pipe going to be outside of it? What will this be secured to?
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sternus1
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26th February 2015 3:43pm
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peter30001 says...
no none of the above sternus,
hint, you wont know you have a problem
for about 12 months.
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peter30001
adelaide
26th February 2015 5:28pm
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sternus1 says...
Hmmm... Ok, so I won't know until they start flowering.

I'm still baffled. Care to fill me in or are you in this for schadenfreude?
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sternus1
Australia
26th February 2015 5:36pm
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Waterfall says...
The pipe would just be buried in the dirt inside the pot, depth is about 0.7m and at the top I'm thinking something more secure to bolt it to the timber. The PVC pipe would really just be there for the DF to climb up, once it reaches the top the trellis would take all the weight.

I probably don't need the PVC at all as my DF are already about 1.5m tall just tied to bamboo posts jammed in tall plastic pots at the moment.
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26th February 2015 5:52pm
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Original Post was last edited: 26th February 2015 5:52pm
peter30001 says...
ok whats schandenfruede?
one more hint, the problem only applies
to half of the setup.
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26th February 2015 6:02pm
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Original Post was last edited: 26th February 2015 6:02pm
sternus1 says...
Schadenfreude is when somebody takes delight in someone else's misfortune.

Something to Do with the pots? All I can think of is that the might get uv decayed and I don't really care about that.
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sternus1
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26th February 2015 6:27pm
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peter30001 says...
yep its the thin natural coloured pots
theyll decay to the point that youll be able to poke your finger through them,
eventually they will just fall apart.
can fix by painting or wrapping with
black plastic.
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peter30001
adelaide
26th February 2015 6:48pm
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sternus1 says...
Yeah I'll get to planting them. I probably should have done this before Ponting out in them but after the amount of bullshit I had to go through building it I was at a point where I needed to see something for my time investment.

I had to make all that biochar. Christ knows how much wood I had to burn, but it was shitloads and I don't ever want to make any ever again.
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Australia
26th February 2015 7:28pm
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JohnMc1 says...
Yeah, you certainly have gone to a lot of trouble, nothin's goin nowhere. just wondering what is the benefit of having the post going through the pot instead of sitting the pot next to the pole? My only concern has already been mentioned re the durability of the pots, but they can be replaced at any time if need be.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
26th February 2015 8:00pm
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MIke T1 says...
I think it is a great set up that will be productive for many years.Peter is right however that the plastic will weaken and perish before too long.It would be hard to turn around and cover the pots in thick plastic after just finishing a big job.
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MIke T1
cairns
26th February 2015 8:05pm
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sternus1 says...
Dunno why I put them through the middle really. No practical reason I suppose, just like the way it looks tbh. I suppose it means I can plant two per post more easily which I'd what I've done but the downside is less area in the pot.
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sternus1
Australia
26th February 2015 8:05pm
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JohnMc1 says...
Out of interest I'll leave a special Dragon Fruit permanently in a soil-less 8" pot and see how far we get.
Here's an A, Diversifolia and a very recently converted grafted Daley's soursop in an 8" auto-pot system. The A, Diversifolia is over 2.7m tall, circa ~2+ yo.

Other pic is an east Javanese sugar apple that has spent it's entire life in coco and is now producing fruit of it's own-could be 3yo. Need a better labelling system.

Sorry, there's a problem uploading will try again later.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
27th February 2015 8:47am
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Original Post was last edited: 27th February 2015 5:52pm
sternus1 says...
Ok Peter so I need some good uv resist paint. Recommendations? I know you can buy it in pressure pack cans but this is going to get expensive fast.
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sternus1
Australia
27th February 2015 9:16am
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peter30001 says...
when i did my 1000 ltr natural coloured
pots i went to a paint recycling store
and got 20 ltrs of bitumen based paint.
i think just any old black exterior
paint would last for years, and then you could just repaint.
i have a lot more 100 ltr pots i have to do, which are thick and blue and am going to wrap them in two layers of black builders plastic.
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peter30001
adelaide
27th February 2015 6:05pm
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echinopora says...
I don't know if they are available around your way sternus and waterfall but 200L olive barrels can be had for 15-25 buck here and would last some time cut in half for a pot (sternus) or for waterfall you could set a 1.8m pole in 25cm of concrete in the bottom, add drainage holes, 25cm gravel, 50cm coir mix. That way the dragons would only have to climb 80cm to get to 1.8m. I imagine the 120kg of ballast at the bottom of the barrel would avoid tipping well if the cactus doesn't get real lopsided. On a side note, how long would a gal post hold up to having something growing against it?
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terranora
28th February 2015 12:51pm
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sternus1 says...
No way echinopera-- mature dragons by themselves weigh at least 150 kg, conservatively. when you add wind pressure to that, the stress is incredible. Whatever they grow on has to be anchored very well.
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sternus1
Australia
28th February 2015 1:04pm
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Carl76 says...
Sternus
Nice Dragonfruitsetup what height have you got the polls at ?
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Carl76
Wilston 4051
2nd March 2015 4:31pm
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sternus1 says...
Some are 6 foot but most are 5. All are concreted three feet into the ground.
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sternus1
Australia
2nd March 2015 7:21pm
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Linton says...
Hi Sternus - that's a lot of concrete you must have used. I'm sure the posts will be more than strong enough to support the load of the dragonfruits.

Hello JohnMc - got your seedling today thanks. Please put the pictures again of the dragonfruits and athertonias growing in autopots and how you will support the df as it grows big like those of sternus.

I need to see this. Thanks.

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Linton
Springvale, Vic
2nd March 2015 7:44pm
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Original Post was last edited: 2nd March 2015 7:44pm
JohnMc1 says...
I'll have to retrieve the DF pics from my old laptop, but here is an A. Diversifolia (Ilama) and a recently added grafted soursop in hydro clay. The Ilama and Sugar Apple, second pic, have been born and bred solely in coco.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
2nd March 2015 10:02pm
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Waterfall says...
John do you heat your greenhouse over the winter?
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Waterfall
Waterfall
3rd March 2015 11:10am
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JohnMc1 says...
yes, if I'm energetic, usually at the onset of the cold weather, I'll light the slow combustion stove, but after a month or so I get lethargic and fire up the industrial thermostatically controlled electric heater. All I want to achieve is above 10°C.
Still undecided how to heat the new polyhouse under construction, maybe line the back wall with a dozen or so 1,000lit IBC's? don't know yet.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
3rd March 2015 6:28pm
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Waterfall says...
I'm building a small lean-to greenhouse now just big enough to house my soursop to fruiting size over winter and maybe a couple of seedlings. The plan is to place a low profile black plastic tub, something like a caravan water tank or under bed storage box under the plants, this tank will be insulated from the concrete slab by a layer of thick polystyrene foam and filled with water.
Inside this tank will be a standard thermostat controlled aquarium heater set to around 23 degrees, this should cost no more than about $35 to run over winter. The whole thing will be well insulated with a temperature actuated lid at the top for warmer days and letting some fresh air in.

Its all just ideas in my head although I've started building it already, time will tell if there will be sufficient heat inside.
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Waterfall
Waterfall
3rd March 2015 9:11pm
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Original Post was last edited: 3rd March 2015 9:10pm
JohnMc1 says...
Set at 23° it would probably run 24 hours a day over winter, What's the current (no pun intended) per KWH rate? .35c? At 100W, that amounts to 2.4KWH per day, 72KWH per month, 216KWH over winter, multiplied by .35c is $108. I'd be happy to pay $108 if it did the job. I ran a fishtank heater fulltime in one of my hydro reservoirs last year, only pushed the temp up a couple of deg over ambient, but was enough. I'd be interested in the outcome.
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
4th March 2015 8:19am
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Waterfall says...
I'll keep you posted John, I'm hoping that since the plants will be literally sitting on top of this mass of heated water and the whole thing will be smallish and well insulated that temps will be ok.

I have a couple of temp sensors that log to SD card so I'll stick one in the greenhouse and one outside to see how its performing.
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Waterfall
Waterfall
4th March 2015 3:19pm
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Bangkok says...
How are the Willughbeia Sarawaccensis doing for you guys?

Mine had a good start but now they are about 30 cm tall they started growing slowly.

Is this a fastgrowing vine or not? I wonder why it stopped growing fast.
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Bangkok
thailand
11th May 2015 6:31am
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Bangkok says...
i forgot the pic
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Bangkok
thailand
11th May 2015 6:32am
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JohnMc1 says...
Yes very slow, taking the cooler conditions well, so far. A couple of nights under 10°C
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JohnMc1
Warnervale NSW
11th May 2015 6:27pm
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Bangkok says...
MY willughbeia's sarawaccensis didn't grow at all since last 4 months.

I hope it's normal for them to grow that slow. Well at least they are still alive, also the ones who didn't get any tapwater from me last months and we almost didn't get rain.

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Bangkok
thailand
10th August 2015 9:58am
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Bangkok says...
The willughbeia's still don't grow, how about yours?

The leaves are not dark green anymore so i put a shadenet over them, hope it helps.
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Bangkok
thailand
29th August 2015 10:17pm
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Bangkok says...
My willughbeia sarawakensis still don't grow, not in shade nor in full sun.

The biggest one is still 30 cm, does anybody have tips how to grow them?
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Bangkok
Thailand
31st October 2015 2:47pm
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