Problems with growing veggies (forum)

Allana1313 starts with ...
Hi everyone, I'm quite new to having a veggie garden and have stumbled on a few problems which I'm not sure what to do. Firstly my veggie gardens are raised off the ground. There about 1 metre high. We used seedlings brought from bunnings in trays. Everything has been growing great except for my squash plants. They were doing really well until in the last week the plants have started to not look so great. There no longer a nice green colour (some leaves are but the rest are yellow) and now the baby squash are just falling off the stem before they even get the size of a 5c piece. It's not a pollination issue as I've seen plenty of bees, I also hand pollinated them myself to make sure. I'm not sure weather squash are just very fragile and do fall off easily or there is something wrong. The other issue I'm faced with is some of my plants have just broken off at the stem. A couple of chilli plants as well as a few broccoli and cauliflower. It's hard to explain but basically the plants are nice and strong and then one day I'll go out there and that same plant is very wiggly, as soon as you touch it the stem just completely lets go right down at the root with no effort at all. Hope that makes sense can't really explain it any other way. I'm not sure weather I'm over watering and that's the problem or not?. The soil we used was A grade stuff which we purchased from a sand and gravel store (as our soil is quite sandy). This soil also has a bit of sand in it. They said it was pre mixed with compost, manure etc. We also added to it a few more bags of compost on the top and some fertilizer. But nothing has been added since (approx 4 weeks). I recently purchased some sugar cane mulch to put over the top of the garden bed as I did find that on hot days the soil was drying up quite fast. The water drains a bit too much some times due to the height of the bed but it's not too bad so we thought we would just add this to help keep it in. I must say since doing that, I have noticed this is when the squash plants started to go. The rest of the plants are doing great which includes different varieties of tomatoes, zucchini, beans, snow peas, lettuce, carrots, capsicum, gooseberry and more. I also haven't seen any bugs but there is quite a few black ants running around in the garden (could they be what's eating these stems away at the roots?). Sorry for the long post, just hope someone could help. Our local nursery didn't seem to know bugger all.

Time: 13th September 2010 9:52am

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Allana1313 says...
Another thing I forgot to mention was the other night we got a bit of a frost, the next morning I noticed the squash leaves had like white dots on them. And they have been there ever since. I noticed though today if you rub the leave the white stuff actually comes off. I'm guessing it's a type of fungus?. would this be what's killing them and if so how do I fix it?

Time: 13th September 2010 9:57am

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rev says...
its a mildew fungus

remove heavilly infested leaves, bin, burn or bury deep
spray the remaining leaves with Milk once a week
increase airflow

try and prevent overhead watering

Time: 13th September 2010 1:02pm

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About the Author Rev
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Allana1313 says...
Thankyou for the response. I went and bought some mildew spray yesterday (sorry before I read your response milk would of been cheaper). Something is still chewing off the bases of my plants just above the roots. I've looked in the dirt can't see any bugs at all so I have no idea what's doing it but there is actual chew marks and it's happening beneath the soil. Does anyone have any idea as to what could be doing this. Since this morning I have lost another 3 plants :( 2 cauliflower and a bok choy

Time: 14th September 2010 3:50pm

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amanda says...
Could it be slaters Allana? U might need to go out with a torch at night - or set up a trap to catch whatever it is. Could be cutworm also.

Time: 15th September 2010 5:40pm

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Allana1313 says...
Thanks Amanda, I'm new to all this so not really familiar with all the bugs. But I had a read up on both you mentioned and it sounds I guess like that cutworm although I have not been able to find anything in the soil. How could I go about trapping a cutworm?. Whatever is doing it does do it at night, but also does it's feeding during the day as well. At this stage it's only attacking Broccoli, cauliflower and chili plants. Everything else has not been touched. If I do have cutworm does anyone know how I can get rid of the problem and prevent it in the future?. Thankyou for help. There is definitely a lot that goes into growing veggies.

Time: 17th September 2010 6:21am

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amanda says...
Don't know Allana! maybe someone else can tell us? I don't have cutworm problems...but slaters will also do what u are describing - have u seen slaters around?
In the meantime you may need to put a little protection around the stems (eg a small plastic pot with the bottom cut out)

Time: 17th September 2010 12:57pm

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About the Author amanda19
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Charles cant spell says...
Yeah cutworms run along just under the soil surface and cut the plnmat down without bothering to eat any more.
Any kind of collar a cm or two under the soil should stop it.
Cut some 5cm length of black poly dripper retic and slit then so you can open then and place them around the base, pus it a little into the ground but not damage the roots to much and you should be ok. I am not aware of a cutworm trap or bait, I tend to find a few when I cultivate the soil to remove invasive grass etc.
Hope that helps. Slaters will knock of small plants but you tend to see nibbles around the place, where as a cut worm will fall your plant like a woodchopper and do a couple more and not nibble anything. Bastards Q!!!!!!!

Time: 17th September 2010 10:04pm

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About the Author Charlesstillcantspell1
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amanda says...
Good point. It will probably kill off many of the good guys in the soil too....I won't even use in on my dogs - it smells evil!

Time: 18th September 2010 11:04am

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Allana1313 says...
Thankyou everyone for your advice and help. I managed to get outside with a torch the other night and was unable to find anything. But it definitely sounds like the cutworm as nothing else has been chewed on the plants. It's as if a little woodchopper has just axed the base of the stem clean and walked away, some of them were half eaten through the stem. Thankfully for the last three days no more plants have been chewed it seems, not sure why. I will try putting something around the base of them all, as I'm sure the little buggers will be back. I was having such a good run too. I remember the guy at the nursery saying something about spraying all my plants with a chili spray, said works great to kill most things. However I just can't remember how he said to make it up, if anyone knows that would be great. Yesterday I noticed a few of my fruit tree's (lychee and soursop)are not looking quite as nice as they were. Looking a tad yellow in colour with the leaves, some leaves half dead, with closer inspection when I looked at the plants they were covered in fly type insects (not sure if they were fruit fly). These plants are only young, and have no fruit at all, so I'm not sure if fruit fly can actually hurt the plants themselves, whatever they were looked like they were biting/stinging the plants. Should I be concerned?.
Thanks

Time: 20th September 2010 7:35am

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About the Author Allana1313
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Lorna says...
To stop the cutworm, I have to start my corn and beans in pots or old toilet roll tubes. When large enough to plant out, I then take away a little of the top soil, and surround the stem with a loose collar of tin foil, pressed flat. I put it on loose to allow for expansion of the stem. When I plant them, I put half the tin foil above the ground, and half below the soil. It takes more time to plant things out, but at least I end up with a full crop. The cutworm only seems to chop the seedlings off right on soil level, so this "foils" them big time! I have had brilliant success with this method.

Time: 20th September 2010 9:08am

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About the Author Lorna
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Allana1313 says...
Thanks everyone. I've attached some photo's (thought it's easier then explaining) of the fruit tree's that ain't looking so great with these fly type insects, I'm assuming may be fruit fly?. There is hundreds of them on the tree's, yet the tree's have no fruit. Are the flies causing my tree's to not look so great?. Also attached a photo of my raspberry plant that seems to be getting chewed by something, I'm not sure what, can't seem to find anything on the leaves. So if anyone has any idea what I could spray on the veggie and fruit tree's to save them?. I will definitely be trying the foil around the base of my vegetable plants, if it saves my crop I don't care how long it takes :) Thanks again for all your help, much appretiated


Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
Picture: 2
Picture: 3
Picture: 4
Picture: 5
Picture: 6
Picture: 7
Picture: 8
Picture: 9

Time: 21st September 2010 6:27am

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Allana1313 says...
I finally found some green caterpillars chewing my raspberry bush this morning so I have at least figured out what was causing that harm. Now just to work out what it is attacking my fruit tree's and I should have everything sorted :), for now anyway.

Time: 21st September 2010 7:49am

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Brendan says...
Hi Allana,
Have you had you water tested? Pic 8 & 9 looks like salt (or fertilizer) burn.
I'd give pic 7, 8, 9, some sulphate of potash, and lots of Gypsum, that will harden up the plant, and add mulch to the soil under the trees, keeping it away from the trunk.

You can buy (or make) fruit fly traps, and spray the raspberry with Yates Success :-)

Time: 21st September 2010 8:36am

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About the Author Brendan
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Lorna says...
Brendan, there is a bit more to sprays than just the active chemicals in them. For different uses, they have different carriers, wetters and formulations. They may look like the same dog with the same leg action from the label, but are in fact the same dog with a different leg action. So just because a product has the same actives, please don't assume that they can be used for different things. I know this from being in the Agricultural retail industry for over 15 years and having the appropriate compulsory training that is associated with it (trained as an agronomist in England and Agsafe here). Diazinon was used for many years in sheep dip type products, and was deemed safe when Lucijet (fenthion) was found to be so deadly. It has now been banned from jetting product for sheep as it has been found to be carcinogenic (cancer causing) and an Anticolinesterase product into the bargain (affects the central nervous system). It is now replaced by mostly the spinosin group of chemicals (Extinosad), IGR's (insect growth regulators) and Ivomectin based products, until they are deemed unfit...

Time: 21st September 2010 8:45am

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About the Author Lorna
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amanda says...
I think it's good to discuss these issues :) - one of my concerns with these things is how they are deemed to be safe and then years later (too late..) we find they are not. Diazinon is under consideration for a potential ban in the E.U.

We seem to be very slow on the uptake in Aust. When my Dad was using Deildrin on the lawns - it had already been banned in the U.S nearly 10yrs previously.

Allana - sorry about the hijack of your topic! In pic three it looks like u have something puncturing the leaf (and vampiring it) I can't see if those bugs have a proboscis and they are responsible?


Time: 21st September 2010 9:21am

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Allana1313 says...
Thanks, no I haven't had the soil tested. These fruit tree's have only been in the ground about 3 weeks. Pictures 789 are the sour sop tree which is the worst affected. The others are the lychee's. It wasn't the greatest looking plant I must admit when I got it, but wasn't quite that bad. I haven't applied any fertilizers at all since I planted them, and in regards to the salt well I guess it's possible I live about 150mt from a salt water creek but it's never affected anything in my garden before as were a fair distance. I think whatever these fly type things are is what is killing it or making it not happy. I was watching them today and it does look like there stinging the leaves. They put there bum down and up constantly. Are they a fruit fly?, I couldn't find any pictures of any that looked like them on google. I also have another one that is the same in looks however it's body is fluro purple/blue's like oil. I just don't understand why fruit fly would sting leaves of the plant and if they actually do harm these plants but there is heaps hanging off. Really lost with this one. I will try the potash as you mentioned. I'm thinking I might just dig these plants up and put them in pots, move them up on the verandah for now with the other fruit tree's which don't have anything like that happening to them.

Time: 21st September 2010 6:49pm

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Allana1313 says...
Here is a zoomed image of the fly
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Time: 21st September 2010 9:10pm

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amanda says...
Hi Allana - i freaked out a bit today as I was doing my spring-thing in the orchard...I came across the very same bug!? I noticed it because of the solid spots on the ends of the wings - from your pics. It is only on my nectarine tree - I will post a pic 2morrow just to prove this!

I don't know what it is - but no - it is not fruit fly. They are not doing any damage to my nectarine, as yet.

Spring sees an enormous amount of "activity" from our insects - most of them are harmless.

For what it is worth - fruit trees are much more susceptible to salinity than veggies etc.

What are your temperature and rainfall stat's like at present? It looked a bit "soggy" in your pics? Do you have any established fruit trees? If so - what and how are they doing? What are your neighbours growing and how well?

Don't worry - your trees should make it :) Just don't kill them with kindness in the meantime!?

Time: 21st September 2010 11:19pm

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Allana1313 says...
Thanks Amanda, ok so there not fruit fly :( not sure what they are then. I currently have planted in the ground the soursop, 2 lychee tree's and a mandarin tree. The mandarin tree is looking fabulous but I must say I've only seen the odd one of them black fly things on it compared to the other three. I also have numerous other fly type things ranging in colours from oil looking to rainbow etc so not sure what they are but they don't seem to be lifting there bums up and down on the plants just sitting on them. I seem to have bugs coming out of the woodwork lol. I have numerous other fruit tree's currently potted on my verandah which don't have one single fly thing on them and are very healthy. Including peach, dragon fruit, mulberry's and a mango. So whatever it is, is around that side of the yard. I've considered digging the plants up and putting them back in pots for now. I've only noticed the leaves on the fruit tree's dying with those sting marks since those black fly things, could just be coincidence I'm not sure. Other than that planted out that side of the yard I have a lot of palm tree's (Golden cane) and some others, as well as a few different tropical plants like elephant ears etc and there all doing great. When I originally bought this house 7 years ago it was surrounded by different fruit tree's and they all seemed very healthy except for they obviously weren't sprayed for bugs and all the fruit had different variety's of pests. At the time we just cut them all down :( not sure why now. Don't think my neighbours have fruit tree's that I know of, mostly palms, Lilly pillys etc. We have just had a week of rain, but these insects were there before this. I might try and catch some of these flies and take one of the leaves down to the nursery although I doubt the lady down there will be much help she doesn't seem to know much at all but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try. I've never been much of a green thumb but really giving it a shot this time, trying to do lots of research and following the tags directions so fingers crossed I don't loose everything.

Time: 23rd September 2010 5:20pm

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peter says...
try googling lacewing insect pictures
and hoverfly pictures to see if they look like the second type of fly you
have. these are both good bugs.

Time: 23rd September 2010 6:53pm

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Allana1313 says...
Ok finally figured out what these flies are. The black one is a Ant Fly scientific name Sepsis Fulgens I think. I have no idea though if it does harm. The other I'm getting is called a green legged fly there like metallic. So weather either of these are a problem or are actually good bugs I'm not sure. If it's not them though I'm stumped as to whats killing the leaves on my plants :(. The pests are having a ball in my garden. Lovely Cut worms are back, so I've used what I could fine to stop them getting to the stems again. Had a lovely big strawberry ready for picking today to find it was covered in tiny minuscule white things that had eaten into it :( so I'm off today to see what I can get that's reasonably natural to spray. Or might just get some chili and garlic see if I can't make something up. These bugs really want to make gardening extremely difficult. I envy gardeners that can manage to grow there veg and be able to eat it lol, I don't think I'm having much luck :). Thanks everyone though for the help, much appreciated.

Time: 24th September 2010 12:29pm

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Allana1313 says...
well I may have found the culprit for the fruit tree's. After pulling off a few damaged leaves and having a careful look upstairs. At first the outside of the leaves look like they have been stung. But when I turned them over I found a bug stuck to the leaf, it was dead like a dried up shell, white with dark bum and little legs. Tiny about the size of a grain of sand. Further looking under the leaves looks like shells off the bug that have been shed stuck here and there. There is also smaller white dead bugs that almost look like a shell stuck to the leaf. There so small though I can't really see what they are. I would say these are what have done the damage. However there so tiny I can't get a photo, and I haven't been able to find anything on the net because I don't really know what I"m looking for.

Time: 24th September 2010 1:15pm

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amateur green thumb says...
Think prevention not cure. Instead of spending mega bucks on fancy sprays etc, spend 20$ on a good companion planting book, much more green, cheap and makes the garden look great with added plants and flowers.

Time: 11th October 2010 3:04am

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paul ynot says...
keep all your plants well hilled , as high as possible , I have found this is a goo practice for all veggies at all times. This also reduces the need to water as often ....Thus saving wqater as well as keeping plants at a more evan moisture at roots.

Time: 6th January 2011 4:55pm

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ringelstrumpf says...
I have a bit of a more relaxed approach. If a plant (at least annual veggies) wants to die it dies.
If my Chinese cabbages have holes in the leaves, you don't see this in a stir fry.
I don't bother with spraying organically or inorganically. Tried milk spray on mildew, didn't work. Later I read that mildew often happens if a plant is water stressed which was the case. Garlic spray is far worse, you have to take a shower afterwards. It's a lot of work.
Cutworms are nasty and I hate them but it is far easier putting another seed in.
BTW, squash, pumpkins, beans, peas, corn etc. are usually not raised as seedlings but sown directly as for very small seeds like carrots.
I sow lettuce directly (but I am bad in sowing evenly) and simply thin and eat the thinnings.
The main reason for sowing tomatoes in punnets is that you want to be ahead of the weather and you usually have millions of tomato seeds in your compost so how do you know which plants are the one you have sown?

Time: 6th January 2011 6:28pm

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paul ynot says...
that is certainly one approach to think about.
.
.
.
.
hum


Maybe we are all trying to hard ...do you think ?

Time: 6th January 2011 8:46pm

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allybanana says...
My two main veggies are fathen and stinging nettles they come up naturaly and the geese weed them for me. Fathen has been the number one weed in my vegee garden some years, I was pulling it out to grow somthing less nutritious this year i just went with it.

Time: 8th January 2011 9:56pm

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About the Author allybanana
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Charles cant spell says...
Haha same same Allyb Fat hen is a pioneer growing in uninhabitable crap dry sand, easy to put out and thin if desired, edible and nutricous, decent green chook fodder, good seeds if you let it seed, great annual shade plant for summer heat in Perth, and versatile enough to be eaten raw or cooked.

Time: 8th January 2011 10:42pm

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