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Chill-sensitive fruit truits and chlorosis

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Amanda starts with ...
I have been studying the effects of overnight temperatures less than 10C followed by warm sunny days and subsequent chlorosis on some species of our subtropical plants here. I haven't lived this far south in Australia before so it's a new issue for me.
I am wondering if others have noted similar and what, if anything, you have tried?
They re-green when the weather starts to warm in Spring - but I feel this chlorosis sets back the young trees in winter? I am guessing there is not much I can do about it - but you never know...
(This is not about frost/freezing sensitivity - only chilling sensitivity and the "e;e;winter yellows"e;e; that some plants get)

Somme of these plants have very little information - if any - in this regard - so it might be interesting to know more about them?

I will start with the regular black grumichama (Eugenia brasiliensis) that we have here, for eg.

It's 10yrs old and was relocated with us - from 700km north, where it had no winter chlorosis (much warmer nights up there)
In the warmer months here it's green - but when the overnight temps start to drop, like now, to 2-8C, followed by warm sunny and clear days (20-25C) it starts to go chlorotic...

The really interesting thing about this is that it's *only* on the northern sunward side...
It's still green on the shady southern side.
And this is why I know that this is not a cold-soil issue (and the soil is still warm in Autumn anyway)

Another plant that shows this quite remarkably is the Peanut Butter fruit tree also (Bunchosia) and I hope do do an experiment on them shortly - and will post results.

Some scientific references for those interested, below...

And the photos of the sunny/northern side versus the shady/southern side of our grumichama - in winter...showing the chlorosis.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Pavelas_Duchovskis/publication/259867890_Chilling_injury_in_chilling-sensitive_plants_A_review/links/00b7d52e49b5442b34000000/Chilling-injury-in-chilling-sensitive-plants-A-review.pdf

http://www.publish.csiro.au/cp/AR99076

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Amanda
LESCHENAULT,6233,WA
11th May 2019 11:02am
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Original Post was last edited: 11th May 2019 9:18pm
Amanda says...
Sorry - pics did not get re-posted when I corrected some info and resubmitted..
Here are the pics again
Shady side versus sunny side..
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Picture: 2
 
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Amanda
LESCHENAULT,6233,WA
11th May 2019 9:25pm
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Markmelb says...
Miracle Fruit gets chlorosis if soil isnt acidic enough - could be similar for citrus?
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Markmelb
MOUNT WAVERLEY,3149,VIC
12th May 2019 10:40am
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jakfruit etiquette says...
Hi, have you considered that the plants inactivity protects it somewhat from cold and frost injury. Frost can be much worse in spring if it hits active new growth of the spring flush.
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jakfruit etiquette
vic
12th May 2019 1:28pm
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David01 says...
Hi Amanda,
Chlorosis occurs due to many factors such as lack iron, zinc, Alkaline soil, Nutrient imbalance and winter effect on tropical/subtropical plants. In your case may be the last one, when the temp drops to below 10C it will limit MICROBIAL ACTIVITY to convert the organic nutrients needed to the plant. Microbes need porous soil and certain temp to thrive. For leaves in the shade as no light for photosynthesis working, thus stay green as indoor plant as that part not active and does not need much nutrients. However, leaf analysis will tell the true story. Cheers
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David01
CRAIGIEBURN,3064,VIC
12th May 2019 11:09pm
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Original Post was last edited: 13th May 2019 9:33am
Amanda says...
Yea Jackfruit etiquette - this can be true in that the plants will dismantle the chlorophyll molecules in order to protect themselves, basically.
I believe this is happening somewhat - as a piece of tape put across a leaf and then peeled off several weeks later - will show *green* under the tape - but chlorotic where exposed to the sun.
Really interesting I think! And hence why they are green on the shady south side - and chlorotic on the sunny north side (as the winter sun is low in the northern sky then, here in our lower latitudes, of course)

I just want to gather the "e;intelligence"e; on these more rare plants - so that we can build on our knowledge about growing them in cooler climates.

Yes that is also possible David01 - but then that would apply for all of our evergreen trees.
That wouldn't explain, for eg: why the Kohola Longan seedling tree becomes chlorotic in winter - but the Chompoo marcot tree does not - even though they are planted 3m apart, treated the same etc.
I suspect that the Kohola is chill sensitive, therefore..this might mean that folks in cooler climates are better off planting Chompoo, for eg.

This is not a soil issue per se/strictly. Sure there are different things going on in winter, compared to summer - but it's not the problem as such.

That part - what is happening in the soil - is very complex and might be a much for this forum perhaps (don't want to scare folks off..I just want to collect the data/info)
For eg: our coastal sands are highly aerobic and thus oxidative soils.
They are also warmer than say yours...for eg. This also affects their redox potential and redox and pH are linked. So I understand all that part. I have been researching this for several years now..and have come to realise that we still have so much to learn! Even the difference between my irrigation season (with the limey bore water) compared to the "e;clean"e; rain water in winter - changes my soil chemsitry...sigh!
You might find these links interesting though - the lychee one a difference scenario - but along similar lines.

http://www.tropentag.de/2007/abstracts/full/311.pdf

http://www.publish.csiro.au/cp/AR99076
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Amanda
LESCHENAULT,6233,WA
13th May 2019 12:18pm
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Amanda says...
Markmelb - yes it could be why some citrus get the winter yellows - but you would need to shade a part of the tree or a branch - to be sure. It's about photo-oxidative stress and chlorophyll bleaching.
In winter where the soils get cold the chlorosis can be due to pH certainly - as the bacteria that reduce sulphur for eg - become very inactive. That's why some growers use iron sulphate in winter instead (as I do here - which overcomes that particular chlorosis problem) Wet soggy soils also change the soil chemistry - reducing oxygen in the soil (which can lead to iron chlorosis, for eg)
(I am not a big fan of iron sulphate as it's a powerful reductant...hence why I want to acidify our bore water in the long term - using a dosing pump and sulphuric acid)
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Amanda
LESCHENAULT,6233,WA
13th May 2019 12:28pm
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Amanda says...
This our marcotted Chompoo longan compared to our seedling Kohala for another eg? ...they are only 3m apart - the Kohala is 10yrs old and 5m tall - and it starts going chlorotic at this time of the year, every year.
The Chompoo is only 3yrs in and about 1.5m tall - it doesn't go chlorotic over winter.
We are having quite cold nights now (althoughby cold nights I mean from about 3am onwards...) and clear, dry and sunny days.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1

Picture: 2
 
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Amanda
LESCHENAULT,6233,WA
14th May 2019 7:47pm
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Original Post was last edited: 14th May 2019 7:47pm
David01 says...
Hi Amanda,

You may be interested in the link below. Cheers

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC157800/pdf/1100997.pdf
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David01
CRAIGIEBURN,3064,VIC
15th May 2019 8:34am
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Original Post was last edited: 15th May 2019 9:15am
Amanda says...
Yea that's kind of along the lines of what I am banging on about David01- but I am interested in woody plants here...(fruiting ones of course! :) ) as well - they have the ability to cold acclimate.
Anyway too much science-y stuff scares regular people off a topic, I have often found :/
I am still really interested in anyone else's experiences of the "e;winter yellows"e; in sub tropical fruit trees, out there?
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Amanda
LESCHENAULT,6233,WA
15th May 2019 11:44am
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David01 says...
"e;Concentration of chlorophyll remained more or less constant in shaded parts of trees in winter, whereas in light exposed parts during this period, the chlorophyll concentration markedly declined and severe"e;

This link will explain why the leaves still green on the shady part. Cheers

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0176161711820687
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David01
CRAIGIEBURN,3064,VIC
15th May 2019 1:43pm
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Original Post was last edited: 15th May 2019 2:48pm
Amanda says...
If only it were that simple David01 - I would be able to spray some zinc-chelate around and be done with it. But certainly, zinc deficient leaves are more photosensitive - but other research has turned has turned up Magnesium and/or Boron deficiency.
Then you have factor in each species...and even in between the different varieties and races (like with mangoes)
There is no one universal answer. To know this topic inside and out you need be a Professor of Plant Physiology - honestly! I won't pretend to have all the answers that's for cetain - but we can often find solutions to problems that we don't yet understand - and that is what I am looking for here.

It's actually a really interesting topic though, for people who just love learning about plants. We are quite lucky to have just one of those Professors nearby, over here...who has taught us alot about delayed greening in our native plants - and anthocyanin production (eg: new leaves that are red) as photoprotective mechanisms.
And those adaptations are also seen in tropical/sub tropical species - because the light intensity is so strong, of course, near the equator.
It's also very strong over here in WA too though - because it's much drier and therefore clearer ( = heaps less cloud cover)
But the plants don't get the chilling overnight like they do outside of their native zones 'up there'...so they are mostly not adapted to the situation (eg: google 'stomatal conductance and chilling sensitivity)

There are also some definite genetic reason why some tropcial species will never tolerate my climate in the next few generations for eg...it will a very, very long time before purple mangosteen will ever be grown in Perth, outside and in the ground.


In the meantime - I am trying to focus on other people's experiences of this problem, and if they have tried anything to alleviate it.

For eg: there are some foliar sprays that can be applied to assist with drought protection and/or frost resitance - perhaps others have tried foliar sprays of plant "e;e;sunblock"e;e; to get their plants through the cold-acclimation/hardening off process...
Maybe others feed their trees certain nutrients when that cold night/sunny day time period exists.
Others might have tried light shade cloth...
etc....

That kind of 'stuff' ...

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Amanda
LESCHENAULT,6233,WA
16th May 2019 9:36pm
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Original Post was last edited: 16th May 2019 11:54pm
David01 says...
Hi Amanda,

Please read my previous comment again. "e;This link will explain why the leaves still green on the shady part”
As I found the other findings in the report i.e. Zinc deficient does not apply to your case.
You will be disappointed if there is a Professor of Plant Physiology lived nearby as they mainly focus on narrow topics for research or thesis thus their findings usually not helping us to solve our common gardening problems. Cheers
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David01
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17th May 2019 2:36pm
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Original Post was last edited: 17th May 2019 3:39pm
Amanda says...
I found the whole paper David01...it's very interesting thanks...it even has this picture in it...which is what I have observed also.
Also interesting about the accumulation of iron in the leaves when they are zinc deficient too.

And Zinc Efficiency and Inefficiency are genetically based....I wonder if the Kohala longan is an *in*efficient type and the Chompoo is an efficient type. Hmnnn!
Maybe that is getting ahead of things though...

https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1046/j.1469-8137.2000.00630.x
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
  
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Amanda
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17th May 2019 10:36pm
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Original Post was last edited: 17th May 2019 10:36pm

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