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Hazelnut Trees

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Owen starts with ...
Will Hazelnut trees tolerate a medium level of salt in their reticulation water, the amount is 480 mg/l as tested.
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Oscar
Balingup WA
10th May 2010 11:59am
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Julie says...
Owen, I have a friend in Donnybrook who is having problems with growing hazelnuts. I know their water is too salty, so I will ask her what the mg/l is on her block. She may not answer straight away, so keep an eye on this thread.
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Julie
Roleystone WA
10th May 2010 7:26pm
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Owen says...
Thanks Julie, very much appreciated, I can be contacted at the Kirup Tavern at any time if your friend has any advice that may help.
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Oscar
Balingup WA
11th May 2010 10:50am
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Julie says...
'I can be contacted at the Kirup Tavern anytime'. Really? Hmmm. :)
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Julie
Roleystone WA
11th May 2010 3:43pm
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Original Post was last edited: 11th May 2010 3:47pm
Owen says...
It's not that I have a social problem, I actually own the place
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Oscar
Balingup WA
12th May 2010 11:24am
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amanda says...
Ah..dream job (n location) Owen.... :-)))
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
12th May 2010 4:16pm
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amanda says...
Oh Owen - forgot - 480mg/L is very high!? Did u get it tested by a professional laboratory? They should have told u the Sodium and Chloride levels separately.
(eg: >350 mg/L chloride is classed as "severe" and Sodium >200mg/L is "very severe")

Did u get any other tests done?
If u want to post them I could have a look if u like.
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
12th May 2010 4:33pm
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Julie says...
I guessed you worked there (or something) Owen - just being silly! Does 'Kirup Syrup' still exist?
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Julie
Roleystone WA
12th May 2010 7:50pm
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Owen says...
Hi Amanda, yes I had it tested in Bunbury, the results as posted were:
Conductivity - 1731 uS/cm
pH - 6.95
Total Dissolved Solids - 952 mg/l
Chloride - 430 mg/l
Hardness - 235 mg/l
Iron - 0.02 mg/l
What are your views on using this for reticulating the trees?
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Oscar
Balingup WA
12th May 2010 9:49pm
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Original Post was last edited: 12th May 2010 10:50pm
Owen says...
Yes Julie, the 'Kirup Syrup' is certainly still in existance and as popular as ever, I'm amazed at how much we sell and not only to tourists, it still has a reputation out there, some of the stories we hear about peoples past exploits after a 'Syrup Session' makes your hair curl!!
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Oscar
Balingup WA
12th May 2010 9:54pm
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Damo says...
Its the devils brew.
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Damo
 
13th May 2010 9:19am
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amanda says...
Hi Owen - that chloride level may give u a lot of problems. The water is also very hard. Is this BORE water? If so - your best bet may be to shandy it with scheme water?

The electrical conductivity:

1200 2400 uS/cm (1.2 2.4 dS/m) Class 3, High Salinity, Suitable for use on medium and high salt tolerant crops only, Water should not be used on soils with restricted drainage, even with adequate drainage special management for salinity control may be required.
Should not cause any problems with livestock.

(this an extract from my report - my EC is 1660 and that's tap water!! it's yukk)

What kind of soil do u have? If it's clay based - then Speedy may be able to help here (I am on sand - quite different) I use liquid gypsum to displace sodium and then flush with a good watering. But there isn't anything u can use for "removing" chloride - other than a filtration system = expensive.

I have to manage my fruit trees very carefully - macadamias are very sensitive... I will see if I can find out more about hazelnuts - but I don't like your chances Owen.. :-(

Are u planning growing truffles with the hazelnuts?
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
13th May 2010 4:35pm
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amanda says...
Hey Speedy...are you able to shed any light on salinity tolerance of nut trees for Owen? My research indicates it's very low - but info on hazelnuts is quite hard to find?
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
14th May 2010 9:36am
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Owen says...
Thanks Amanda, unfortunately I dont have the luxury of scheme water to "shandy" the bore water down, to add to the dilema, we have a dam that looses its water fairly rapidly. To answer your question, yes, our intention was to introduce truffle spore to the root system, however that may not now be possible. I might research the cost of filtration, I'll wait to see if your friend Speedy has any further info, our soil is quite good, a brown loam with gravel so good drainage I'd expect.
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Oscar
Balingup WA
14th May 2010 11:36am
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Original Post was last edited: 14th May 2010 11:41am
amanda says...
Speedy may be able to give u some ideas about fungi and salinity also. Help needed here please Speedy?? :-)
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amanda19
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14th May 2010 4:34pm
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Speedy says...
I don't know much about hazelnut trees, I think it's a bit hot for them here during the summer, so I haven't tried them.
I have a feeling though that they would suffer burned edges of leaves from salt.

as for them being a host for truffles, I beleive there's a bit of a move away from them in favour of Oaks, mainly Q.robur and Q.ilex in Aust.
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Nth Vic
16th May 2010 11:57pm
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amanda says...
Ta Speedy - Owen maybe your best bet is to get some advice from an agronomist - if u are planning on spending a lot of money..? Have you had your soil tested? This will also help determine whether the soil is holding onto the salts.

I was able to access the Landmark agronomist (he is in Perth) Aaron Chapman, as I arranged my soil test thru' the outlet here. Given the horticulture industry down your way - I would imagine their would be a few knowledgable horticuluralists...your nearest Ag Dept branch may know.

Professional ventures really need careful investigations done...I would seek advice on your water and soil first.

You may also want to find out the SAR value of your water (sodium absorbtion ratio) this takes into account calcium and magnesium also.

Do you get scale build-up from this water?
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
17th May 2010 9:45am
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Owen says...
Thanks Amanda, Looks like I have a bit of 'homework 'to do.
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Oscar
Balingup WA
17th May 2010 10:15am
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Julie says...
Owen, I finally heard back from my friend in Donnybrook - she didn't check her emails for a week!

I think she had the same idea as you, I vaguely remember her mentioning truffles. But the hazels are not flourishing. Their salt content is 595 mg/l - far too high according to the agronomist they talked to. She also mentioned they were badly affected by wind. So it doesn't look promising.
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Julie
Roleystone WA
17th May 2010 8:19pm
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amanda says...
Hi Julie/Owen - I am stunned! I would have thought the water down that way would be lovely!?
This is a great "heads up" for us as to waiting for a block with good ground water...(not to rape n pillage it tho').

It may be worth doing some heavy duty research into what else the truffle spore might adapt to? Why just these trees I wonder? What's the relationship??

If nothing else - it's a really interesting topic Owen? :-)

PS - there are many types of hazelnuts too...
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
17th May 2010 11:04pm
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Original Post was last edited: 17th May 2010 11:05pm
amanda says...
PS Owen - a quick sleuth on google says Holly Oak is a truffle host - this Oak tolerates "maritime exposure"..?
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amanda19
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17th May 2010 11:26pm
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Owen says...
Amanda, thanks for all your investigative efforts here and you too Julie, and yes, it has been an interesting topic, this is the first time I've sought assistance from a forum of this type and I must say I'm impressed at the length you guys have gone to to help out, it's obvious I'm going to have to get some expert assistance if I'm going to pursue this.
Thanks again to all and I'll post any info or results I finish up with. Regards, Owen
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18th May 2010 6:47pm
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amanda says...
Good luck Owen..apparently there is a good book called "Taming the Truffle"....
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amanda19
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18th May 2010 8:24pm
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Julie says...
amanda, they were shocked too! Just shows you must never assume anything, and you need to do your homework.

This friend used to live nearby, then moved to Donnybrook, so we correspond by email now. When she described her plants, I said it sounded like salt burn, but surely that wasn't possible? Turns out I was right, unfortunately.

Good luck Owen with your research.
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Julie
Roleystone WA
18th May 2010 8:25pm
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Owen says...
I've picked up one little tip, I may be able to get away with trickle irrigation at the levels I have, but any aerial spraying will definately result in salt damage to the foliage.
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19th May 2010 12:26pm
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amanda says...
Hi Owen - u may want to have a look thru' the "blackwater" topic - it's pretty long - but about halfway down there is quite a bit of info on salts that Speedy helped me to understand.

Also - u could collect a great deal of rainwater (in tanks) to shandy with during summer....winter rainfall may be enough to flush your soil - once again u may need to soil test in summer, and in winter, and then compare. Just some thoughts.

Plants can still burn even with trickle irrigation...it's a big topic - but if u google salinity management in soils - or such - there is heaps of info to keep u up late at night! ;-)

Don't be disheartened tho' - it's not impossible - just gotta do the homework. Get that soil tested first - this will tell u a great deal.
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amanda19
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19th May 2010 4:52pm
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Owen says...
Thanks again Amanda, I'll check out the 'blackwater' topic, as I mentioned earlier, we're not on scheme and are using our rain water for domestic purposes, I'm thinking of weighing up the cost of additional tank capacity against filtration/treatment of the bore water.
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Oscar
Bailingup WA
20th May 2010 11:50am
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amanda says...
Hi Owen - this is one of the better sites about salinity that I found on my travels thru the net. It's heavy duty - but you can glean some info from it, at least. Section 5.6 is the one.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t0234e/T0234E06.htm

I looked into filtration but it was about $9,000. I also looked into the Delta water treatment system - which uses magnetics.

If u have used the bore water around your garden - do a soil test there and see how your soil is coping with it....u never know - it may be ok.

A bit premature for u yet - but it's worth being informed b4 u spend the big bucks i reckon!!
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
20th May 2010 8:19pm
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Owen says...
Hey Amanda, your right about the 'Blackwater' topic, it's doing my head in going through it all, but a lot of good info there, your mate Speedy seems to have it all together, a very learned man on the subject I'd say, and a lot more no doubt.
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Oscar
Bailingup WA
20th May 2010 8:21pm
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amanda says...
Owen - snap! did u see my post above...
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
20th May 2010 8:24pm
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Owen says...
No I missed that, hmmm, $9000, stretching the budget a bit! I'll browse the website though and see what I can learn from it, it's all good info, just takes a bit of 'filtering' (intentional pun).
Thanks
ps Your 'friend' Kert?? a bit weird I'd say.
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Oscar
Bailingup WA
21st May 2010 6:40pm
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Owen says...
OK Girls and Guys, it looks like Reverse Osmosis treatment is the winner here, all I need to know from you gardening guru's is how many litres per day should I estimate a 4 year old tree will require in the dry times, ie no rain water supliment?
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Oscar
Bailingup WA
27th May 2010 8:50pm
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amanda says...
Hi Owen - well done - how much will it cost? about the water requirements - hard to say for sure but the Ag Dept web site has watering requirements for various trees - maybe not hazelnut but perhaps other nut trees may compare.

Also - there is a truffle growing society that could give u lots of help here. Try:
info at trufflegrowers dot com dot au
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amanda19
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28th May 2010 9:29am
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Owen says...
Thanks Amanda, cost will be dependant upon Litres/day required, estimates are a unit producing 200l/day could cost as little as $300 ranging to 50000l/day for around $17000, my plan would be to filter and pump to a holding tank and reticulate (by pump or gravity) from there as required during the dryer seasons (we just got 30mm of rain over the last 24hrs, very handy)I'm thinking a 500l/day output would be adequate but I'll attempt a more 'scientific' aproach to this calculation.
Keep you posted. regards, Owen
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Oscar
Bailingup WA
28th May 2010 12:22pm
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Itdepends says...
I would have thought 10-20L/day pre tree absolute max- more likely that amount every 3-5 days depending on the water retention of your soil.

Try PSI Filters for cheap RO units (mail delivered from Tassie)- a lot of the people with Marine tanks use them.

Be aware with any RO system- it produces a saltier residue (you could get anywhere from 2-10L of waste for every 1L of clean water) and you need reasonable pressure- that means if you've got a 200L/day system- you need to provide 300-400kPa pressure to it for 24hrs to get the 200L. You can buy booster pumps which are smaller electrically operated diapraghm pumps that can run off a tank supply- because you don't want the bore running all that time to produce a small volume of RO water.

Also be careful RE your water- if there's bugs in the water (i.e. not chlorinated) they can eat/damage the membrane over time.

Daniel
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28th May 2010 3:05pm
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Julie says...
Owen, don't know how to get hold of them (web search?), but the West Australian Nut and Tree Crop Society should be some help. Many of their members experiment with new trees all the time, to see how they grow in WA conditions.
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28th May 2010 7:14pm
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Julie says...
Sorry, that should be association, not society.
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28th May 2010 7:15pm
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Owen says...
Thanks Daniel, something else to consider now, I was intending to filter the holding tank incoming from the bore, but it may be more ecconomical to filter at the tank discharge.
Julie, thanks for the tip, I'll try to track them down, more griss for the 'scientific approach' mill !!
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Oscar
Bailingup WA
28th May 2010 11:02pm
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