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Bugs1 starts with ... Hi I have two avocado saplings that have been grown from seed. One is 110cm tall the other is 90cm tall. I was hoping to graft each to the rootstock of the other. They are similar age and diameter so they should be a good match in that respect. My question is if there is a maximum size suitable for grafting? And whether or not these plants have exceeded it? If there is no maximum size for grafting. How far up from the base (soil level) should I make the cut? Or should I just swap the top 20cm or so, which would give me branches developed by both the scion and rootstock? I have done the same thing to 2 other smaller sapplings (about 30cm high) with one graft seeming to have taken and the other failing. However, depending on how far up from the ground the cut is made, I would struggle to replicate the process simply due to not have any clear plastic bags that large enough to fit over the top of the plant and still cover the area of the cut. Thank you all for your time. | About the Author Bugs1 MOSMAN PARK,6012,WA 3rd November 2019 5:58pm #UserID: 21102 Posts: 3 View All Bugs1's Edible Fruit Trees |
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jakfruit etiquette says... There is no Maximum size for grafting, except that you have to be able to make the cuts with the knife without too much resistance causing ragged cuts or splitting. Also the wound surfaces have to heal callous over etc. As the sapling gets thicker, its gets harder to make the cuts with grafting knives. This changes with different plant species, depending on how woody they are. Also the matching size scion/graft from a fruiting tree might be more woody than the same size sapling so that may be tougher to cut. It also depends on the actual grafting method you are using. I assume you are using an exact matching V saddle graft ? I dont think there is any reason not to graft higher up to get to the trunk size diameter you want. Look at grafted ornamental standards on 2 metre tall stocks or topworking mature fruit trees. Grafting or budding lower does seem to push the scion harder for the first growth, but that wont affect you. A lot of this goes back to woodwork and carpentry, if you have a 100 cm tall plant and you swap graft it at 25 cm cm, you are going to have to work and support the 75 cm scion. Easier to do the top 20 cm or less, as it will be less likely to move around or get bumped etc. Have you thought of just grafting each to itself ? There is some suggestion that grafting itself promotes tree maturity and fruiting ie a permanent cincture. There is also inverted ring grafting which is supposed to dwarf and promote fast fruit in seedlings. For the graft cover, you might try to find continuous extrusion plastic bag, ie a roll of plastic tube that you cut where you want. For Avocados, I used parafilm grafting tape/buddytape tape and wrapped the whole graft and scion, as plastic bag covers wernt practical. Maybe with a beer bottle paper bag over the top for shade. There are many different grafting methods, books with a lot of illustrations will give you some clues. R. J. Garner's The Grafter's Handbook is the classic reference book on plant propagation by grafting and has now been revised and updated. | About the Author jakfruit etiquette vic 4th November 2019 8:16pm #UserID: 5133 Posts: 915 View All jakfruit etiquette's Edible Fruit Trees |
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People who Like this Answer: Bugs1 Original Post was last edited: 4th November 2019 8:36pm | ||||||||||
Bugs1 says... Thank you that was very helpful. I was going to use a standard V-cut saddle graft just for the sake of keeping things simple. I figure that if I can make the V fairly deep that's more surface area of cambium touching, hopefully increasing the chance of the graft taking. Your point about balancing the top 75cm of scion is well taken, I want to avoid that kind of engineering on my 4th and 5th grafts ever. A follow up to my 'where to cut' part of the question is will I get two varieties of avocado on the one tree if branches develop below the graft? This seems to be happening with my smaller plant where the graft seems to have taken. I'll put up pictures tomorrow to clarify. Basically does the graft rise as the plant grows or does the plant only grow upwards above the graft? Sorry if that's confusing. And I just had an idea about the plastic bags. You mentioned continuous extruding plastic bag and when I looked it up I realised it's very similar to those rolls of plastic you get for Vacum Packing food. I'll do some fiddling before I make the call but cutting these to length and then sealing one end with the Vac Pack might be a workable substitute. By grafting to itself do you mean just cutting the plant and grafting the piece back to it's original position? It's an interesting idea. Thank you for your time and advice, Ill be bookmarking this page. And I'll defenitely check out that book that you mentioned. Happy Gardening :) | About the Author Bugs1 MOSMAN PARK,6012,WA 5th November 2019 9:00pm #UserID: 21102 Posts: 3 View All Bugs1's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Marmot1 says... Actually there are other ways to do the grafting, I have tried different ways from tiny buds (7-8 cm tall) to 3 meters high. One special grafting is very interesting, I don't know if anyone has tried that on avocado trees. How I did it: cut the avocado rootstock in half, keep some leaves, remove bark (3 cm wide around the high end of the rootstock, then remove the stem (the wood part), keep the bottom part of the scionwood with only the bark. Then attach the bark of the scionwood to the stem part without bark of the rootstock. Nearly 100% cambium match, it's working, sometimes you don't even to think about the size. In my case, scionwood nearly was twice the size of rootstock, so I kept half the bark of the scionwood, wrapped the bark around the bark-removed rootstock. | About the Author Marmot1 CASULA,2170,NSW 6th November 2019 1:26pm #UserID: 20667 Posts: 102 View All Marmot1's Edible Fruit Trees |
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jakfruit etiquette says... Hi Bugs, no the graft surface does not rise as the tree grows taller, you can see the different barks on old grafted trees still 6 inch above the ground. Nearly any double or multi grafted tree can have problems of one scion taking over, and rootstock suckers can do the same. Your trees will be something in between, so need to be careful that the rootstock or undertree section doesnt take back over. Yes self grafting or chip budding. I used this to test if my technique was causing failure, or the if scion budwood or compatability was a problem. I got some continuous roll plastic bag from the $2 shop years ago, cant find it online yet but the vac bags should be good. Also some tree guards are ok. Please also check out parafilm grafting tape and buddytape. | About the Author jakfruit etiquette vic 6th November 2019 4:31pm #UserID: 5133 Posts: 915 View All jakfruit etiquette's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author jakfruit etiquette vic 7th November 2019 8:19am #UserID: 5133 Posts: 915 View All jakfruit etiquette's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Marmot1 says... @jakfruit etiquette For scionwood: first use a knife to cut deep into the bark of the scionwood, try a flat cut, then remove a rectangular part of the bark, carefully separate the bark and the wood, then cut off the wood (not necessarily flat cut). Then you can have something like the picture. Most difficult park is done. rootstock: cut off part of the stem, peel off a circular bark. then let the bark of scionwood and bare wood of the rootstock be together. Wrap them with plastic, let the buds out, cover it with a seal bag. Done. If you have good fingers, you can try cutting v part off the bark of scionwood. Fully attached to each other, I don't know how much it could take.
| About the Author Marmot1 CASULA,2170,NSW 7th November 2019 12:58pm #UserID: 20667 Posts: 102 View All Marmot1's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Bugs1 says... HI everyone, thank you for your responses :) I've attached a few pictures of my little projects. Seasol bottle for scale on the small one. I'm guessing that the new growth on the rootstock is it trying to take over again. So I've trimmed it off in an effort to stem that. Might try Mamot1's trick on the other 2 small plant's I've got going. Will let you know how that goes.
| About the Author Bugs1 MOSMAN PARK,6012,WA 8th November 2019 8:58pm #UserID: 21102 Posts: 3 View All Bugs1's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Danny333 RIVERTON,6148,WA 11th November 2019 11:13pm #UserID: 7962 Posts: 93 View All Danny333's Edible Fruit Trees |
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| About the Author Marmot1 CASULA,2170,NSW 12th November 2019 2:05pm #UserID: 20667 Posts: 102 View All Marmot1's Edible Fruit Trees |
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Danny333 says... Hi Marmot1, I’m always grafting lots of avocados for friends, I usually do about 20 or 30 at a time and can sell some of the extra trees to cover the cost of grafting materials. Most of the trees I graft are regular Hass but I also do Reed when I have access to budwood. I’m also trialling a mature seedling of Reed that has nearly identical fruiting characteristics but has a B type flowering habit. | About the Author Danny333 RIVERTON,6148,WA 16th November 2019 3:12pm #UserID: 7962 Posts: 93 View All Danny333's Edible Fruit Trees |
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