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Water shoot

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Orange growth starts with ...
I am 81. Our orange tree was a prolofic bearer but it was too high to pick the oranges. We had to wait for them to drop.
I got my lad to cut back it back, severley.
Now it is producing hundreds of new shoots.
At this stage I am not sure what or what not are water shoots.
I tried to get a qualified pruner to do the job but could not get one.
Can you tell, from the photos which are the water shoots?
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Water shoots
Pt Pirie SA
24th September 2009 12:48pm
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Tiggerbow says...
I may be wrong but I would think all growth above the graft line would be good growth?. Anything below a graft line I would snap off.
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Jodie
Perth WA
24th September 2009 1:10pm
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Wayne says...
That looks like an old seedling tree to me so I would leave them if you wish. If you feel the tree will become to bushy just knock off what shoots you need to.

You will have to get your lad to make a picker for you

Good luck
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Wayne
Mackay QLD
24th September 2009 1:56pm
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chequer says...
Thanks Triggerbow and Wayne
Triggerbow: They are all above the graft
line
Wayne:
The tree is a grafted and it is over 40 years old.
It has, after the first couple of years, always been a prolific bearer.
After having it cut back, it is now producing too much new growth.
(see photos).
I'm not sure if a orange tree has water shoots but I know for sure that lemonn trees do.
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Water shoots
Pt Pirie SA
25th September 2009 2:02pm
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Wayne says...
An orange tree will have water shoots only from below the graft line as far as I know so you're sweet there.

I would have probably cut back some of those higher branches even further and left the lower ones intact. I think just break off those shoots that you don't want
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Wayne
Mackay QLD
25th September 2009 6:58pm
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Original Post was last edited: 25th September 2009 6:59pm
amanda says...
Hi - water shoots can grow from anywhere on the tree (I can't remember which post has this info from b4?) they will revert to a 'normal' branch after a period of time so don't worry about them - they can be very useful when u need to re-shape the tree.

Start to identify which shoots you want to keep and rub/knock off any that are going to give you problems down the track (eg: crossed, inwards pointing etc) and any too low and/or below the graft. Don't be too harsh - your tree needs leaves to make it's food to re-grow...give it a good feed too and plenty of water. Don't expect any fruit this year - or remove them - your tree needs to focus on vegetative growth now.

Now that you have removed the canopy - be on the watch for a sunburnt trunk. You can paint with a water soluble white house paint to prevent this. I hope this helps.
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
27th September 2009 11:07am
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Wayne says...
As far as I'm concerned Amanda a water shoot comes from below the graft and branches come from above the graft. I have never seen nor heard of what you speak.
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Wayne
Mackay QLD
27th September 2009 1:45pm
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Original Post was last edited: 27th September 2009 1:46pm
amanda says...
Hi Wayne - here is a link to this topic - starts on the 28th May 09 if u scroll down:

https://www.daleysfruit.com.au/forum/lots-a-lemons/

Rootstock 'suckers' come from below the graft - water shoots are atypical branches above.
Roses also produce watershoots - and they are not grafted.
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
27th September 2009 2:04pm
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Wayne says...
I subscribed to that thread Amanda and missed where it says suckers below the graft. Bananas send up suckers as most tubers do but I've not heard that term referring to citrus.

I think it's just a matter of terminology, QLD V WA.



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Wayne
Mackay QLD
27th September 2009 5:08pm
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amanda says...
Hi Wayne - possibly - but I first heard of the meaning of watershoots and what they were thru' Pete Cundall (my hero!).

I actually have two "watershoots" that I kept on my mandarin tree as new leaders..I can't tell the difference with them anymore (otherwise I'd take a pic for u).

Watershoots and suckers are two different things as far as I am aware - otherwise what do u call the occasional atypical growth above the graft?

Next time I get one I will take a pic. (ps - sometimes roses are grafted I think? I don't grow/like roses so I am not much good with them..but had to prune many, many roses in all the rentals I live in over 20 odd yrs..hence I learnt about watershoots with them too..so glad they are banned from my own garden! :)))
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
27th September 2009 5:23pm
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Adam says...
I though that a water shoot was a product from a domant bud, rather then from the normal growth tip. Often when a tree is stressed it will activate these domant buds and send out new growth.

Not a problem in themselves, but if you are talking about a fruit tree then this can be an issue as you are trying to train it to a particular shape with a limited amount of main branches.

Not sure that below or above the graft comes into it, except that in the case of water shoots/suckers from below the graft you definately don't want them.

I think that in the case of citrus, you don't get real suckers (growth from roots, that can be divided off to form a new plant, like with jujubes), but some of the root stock water shoots come from right near the base of the tree and look similar over all.
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Adam
Melbourne
27th September 2009 6:12pm
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Wayne says...
Thanks Adam - Amanda
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Wayne
Mackay QLD
27th September 2009 7:37pm
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amanda says...
Yup - see what u mean...sucker probly not the right word for the rootstock growth?. The atypical ones above are very strange tho' aren't they? I think Speedy was probly close to the mark about them. The watershoot on my Tangello even had thorns on it..(it was at the top of the tree so not rootstock)
Is this making any sense? Does anyone else get these odd branches now n then?
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
28th September 2009 9:45am
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Adam says...
A normal response to stress I think. Eucalyptus sprout out from what are essentailly water shoots after a bush fire and if you are in Melbourne, most of the Elms are sprouting water shoots, rather then growing from the tips of the branchs due to the water stress they are under (or have been under).

I've got a Buddha's Hand Citron that has lost all of its leaves and had the tips burnt of during the winter, in a few months I expect it to be a mass of water shoots.
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Adam
Melbourne
28th September 2009 10:03am
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chequer says...
I reckon Amanda is right re 'Water shoots'
I have not experienced them in 40 years growth on my orange tree but quite often get them on my Lemon tree over the same period
These shoots emerge from anywhere on the tree, grow fast, and are a single shoot with no lateral branches.
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Water shoots
Pt Pirie SA
4th October 2009 10:38am
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amanda says...
Thanks Water shoots - I thought maybe I was going mad?! :) I don't know about oranges - as mine only 2.5yrs and haven't seen them do this. My mandarins, tangello, lemons n limes do it tho'. They are weird branches - sometimes the stem is almost squarish and the leaves a bit like a kaffir lime ("doubled"? - I don't know what the technical name for this is) A friend experienced in growing said they are water-shoots too. They seem to come about during a period of perfect conditions and rapid growth - and yes they are very, very vigorous!
I pinched the top out like Speedy said and they grew the lateral branches then - now they are just like any other branch.
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
4th October 2009 11:02am
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chequer says...

Amanda,
Looks like a good tip from Speedy, I'll give it a go.
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Water shoots
Pt Pirie SA
10th October 2009 11:56am
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amanda says...
There is a post on the "help!" page of the Nov Gardening Aust about what to do with watershoots.
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amanda19
Geraldton. WA
19th October 2009 10:40am
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Linton says...
I really need to know if I should cut off this water shoot or not that has sprung up on the Black Monkey Orange tree, low down on the trunk.

There seems to be conflicting information available, some places stating that water shoots should always be removed, while others such as on this topic say that its fine to leave them on. The Black Monkey Orange is not a citrus and this tree is not grafted so perhaps that makes a difference as to what I should do. Please advise as soon as possible. Yours humbly!
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Linton
NOBLE PARK,3174,VIC
7th February 2020 1:45pm
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jakfruit etiquette says...
Basically, the older part of the plant is growing horizontally or flat, and unless you stake it back up, the only way for the plant to grow up is vertical shoots.
It may be too late to stake it back to fix it, I would leave the shoot alone.
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jakfruit etiquette
vic
8th February 2020 9:50am
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Fruitylicious1 says...
Hi Linton

Let the water shoot grow since it's not grafted. Stake it to support and straighten the new growth and once its strong enough prune all of the lower branches. Then you'll have a handsome, vertical single trunked spreading black monkey orange tree.
Happy gardening 😎
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Fruitylicious1
TAMWORTH,2340,NSW
9th February 2020 8:53am
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Linton says...
Thanks to both for the esteemed and knowledgeable advice which without it, I wouldn't have any idea what to do. I would also like to mention that I'm growing the Green Monkey Orange as well which is more bushy and that one has not sent up any water shoot.

I believe that these species were being trialed in Israel to be grown as a commercial crop. It's not surprising given that they produce edible fruit about the size of a grapefruit!

Thanks for listening!
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Linton
NOBLE PARK,3174,VIC
10th February 2020 8:12pm
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