Clay soils (forum)

amanda starts with ...
Hi All. Seems a lot of folk have clay soils... I don't but have lived with them b4. I was pondering the problem and wondered if anyone has tried digging a (very) big hole and putting/mixing in a bag of river sand (very coarse) when planting your trees?

Sandy soil often requies the addition of clay so why not the opposite for clay? Gypsum is great but it's not permanent.

Time: 3rd January 2010 12:29am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Brendan says...
Hi amanda,
I know it sounds like a good idea, digging a big hole and filling it with sand, but all you end up with is a mini well, that will fill with water, and kill any tree that's planted there.

Gypsum is the answer for clay soils, it seems to be permanent here? Why I use a lot is I'm planting more trees :-)

Time: 3rd January 2010 8:33am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Brendan
Mackay, Q
#UserID: 1947
Posts: 1722
View All Brendan's Edible Fruit Trees

HappyEarth says...
Gypsum and compost are good long term solutions, but best to mound up with soil, compost, potting mix to ensure good drainage in these type of soils.

Rich
www.happyearth.com.au

Time: 3rd January 2010 8:37am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author HappyEarth
Wollongong
#UserID: 2553
Posts: 181
View All HappyEarth's Edible Fruit Trees

Araich says...
It depends on the profile of your soil. Sometimes you get lucky and there is a permeable layer within reach. Then a soak-away hole will work.

No such luck for me - so far.

Something I was late to realise is that the shape of your planting hole matters. A bowl shape (deepest in the center) is the worst, as the center of the root system gets the bath. A better shape is a donut impression, where it is deepest around the edge. Then water will pool at a distance from the center and the root crown.

Plus a wider hole, and perhaps a deep hole adjacent that has a well draining fill soil. That would tend to drain water from the planting hole. Obviously there are limits to this and heavy rain could fill it all.

Above all, mounding seems the best option. It drains the water from the root crown and gives a greater surface area for evaporation and oxygenation.

Mix some of the clay into your planting mix. It is great at holding water and you don't want a bucket of potting mix surrounded by a clay bowl.

For me, I understood some of this late and am left to throw gypsum around... and become an expert in root-rot fungi.

Do a gypsum test first: http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s1676965.htm

Here in Melbourne's west, my jar of dissolved clay failed to clear in 24hrs, then in under a minute after adding (Bunnings brand) gypsum.

One last word, if you are on clay, water a lot less. Make the effort to dig down a little to check the moisture. A dry surface can hide a saturated mess below. And beware of the 'deep soaking' advice in books.

Time: 3rd January 2010 11:31am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Araich
Melbourne
#UserID: 2933
Posts: 58
View All Araich's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
Oh - sounds like lots of earthworms needed too?! And I thought sand was hard work! I was reading the crusher dust topic about deep ripping it in, and was thinking this would work for river sand.
Not very practical in a suburban back yard tho' unless you are starting a new block.
I deep ripped clay into my sand as I wanted something that would really last - I was burning thru wetting agents (and I add loads of OM too, of course). It been a big help.

Time: 3rd January 2010 11:47am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. WA
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees

Araich says...
I'll swap you some clay for sand Amanda :-D

Time: 3rd January 2010 7:24pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Araich
Melbourne
#UserID: 2933
Posts: 58
View All Araich's Edible Fruit Trees

Karen & Paul says...
Thanks Amanda for starting this one. I'm looking forward to more clay experience being added here. Great advice Araich we will try out your findings as we are just starting out on a new block which is very heavy clay and also quite steep. We have been dreading getting into the shaping of it as it just feels like cement under foot.
We did begin preparing a no dig vegie patch area the week before we moved in. It was a spur of the moment thing as we passed some cheap hay bales on the side of the road. We thought we'd get a head start in a week when we couldn't do any other jobs for various reasons. We have been in 6 weeks now and all the other jobs have way overtaken the vegie patch. We checked it the other day however and were most pleased to find that under our layers of cardboard, sugar cane bales, horse manure and kitchen scraps the clay base is turning quite crumbly and pliable :-)
So the thought now is to prepare the entire block with cardboard, hay and poo hehehehe I wonder what the neighbours will think?
The pic shows the layers in progress

Time: 3rd January 2010 9:14pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 3rd January 2010 9:23pm

About the Author Paul Karen1
Pottsville NSW
#UserID: 3143
Posts: 50
View All Paul Karen1's Edible Fruit Trees

Karen & Paul says...
I tried adding some pics to my message above last night but had some trouble. Here is one of the no dig in progress and the site we have to work with :-/

Time: 4th January 2010 9:44am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Paul Karen1
Pottsville NSW
#UserID: 3143
Posts: 50
View All Paul Karen1's Edible Fruit Trees

Karen & Paul says...
Grrr still no luck with the pics I will try to make them smaller...

Time: 4th January 2010 9:45am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Paul Karen1
Pottsville NSW
#UserID: 3143
Posts: 50
View All Paul Karen1's Edible Fruit Trees

George says...
I live at Morayfiels Qld where the clay goes down 80 feet, so I plant my fruit trees on high wide mounds of soil mixed with anything that makes a good compost and now, since starting in 94, I have a soursop, lemons, oranges, grapefruit, tropical apples, a mango tree, jakfruit and guava, all doing well, and I use bore water and careful how I use it, my big problem is the bats and parrots like the fruit also.

Time: 17th September 2011 12:24pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
About the Author George9
 
#UserID: 5843
Posts: 1
View All George9's Edible Fruit Trees

Brendan says...
G'day George,
Try putting some 'green ants' in your fruit trees, they will help keep birds and flying foxes away.

Time: 20th September 2011 7:00am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Brendan
Mackay, Q
#UserID: 1947
Posts: 1722
View All Brendan's Edible Fruit Trees

Julie says...
Brendan, could you explain that? And where would you get green ants?

Time: 20th September 2011 7:47pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Julie
Roleystone WA
#UserID: 154
Posts: 1842
View All Julie's Edible Fruit Trees

snottiegobble says...
Brendan, we dont have green ants down south, its too cold for them, mate! Julie, the green ants weave foliage together quite high up in the trees & make dense nests out of it. They are only in the tropics ( seen them in Darwin) & they attack anything that lands near them. I imagine that nests like theirs would provide good ventilation, but be far too cold down south for the pupae to survive!

Time: 20th September 2011 8:16pm

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author snottiegobble
Bunbury/Busso (smackin the middle)
#UserID: 3468
Posts: 1458
View All snottiegobble's Edible Fruit Trees

Brendan says...
Fair enough SG. Up here, they do keep 'most' flying foxes off mango trees / fruit etc. Boy, can they bite!

I think George is in Qld tho. :-)

Time: 21st September 2011 8:02am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report
Original Post was last edited: 21st September 2011 8:03am

About the Author Brendan
Mackay, Q
#UserID: 1947
Posts: 1722
View All Brendan's Edible Fruit Trees

BJ says...
I dont think Morayfield has green 'tea' ants either. Definately could try relocating a nest of the black tree ants into your fruit trees, but they dont have anywhere near the bit the green ones do. They do swarm like mad though at any disturbance in their tree, which would discourange any animal from staying too long on the tree, but wouldn't really deter the snatch and grabbers.

Time: 21st September 2011 9:20am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
#UserID: 3270
Posts: 1552
View All Theposterformerlyknownas's Edible Fruit Trees

amanda says...
I had big bull ants roving all thru' my stone fruit trees last year...I thought it was great until the fruit just tipped over to ripe - then they started sticking their madibles in my fruit and eating it! grrr.. :(

Time: 22nd September 2011 9:10am

Reply | LIKE this Answer(0) | LIKE this Question (0) | Report

About the Author amanda19
Geraldton. Mide West WA.
#UserID: 2309
Posts: 4607
View All amanda19's Edible Fruit Trees