Grafting - plum

Saf starts with ...
I have been reading about grafting techniques lately and am very interested in trying. Actually my interest in grafting grew from a need - last year I bought a Narrabwen plum without realising that I need a another variety of plum as a cross pollinator. 

Can someone please suggest a cross pollinator?  Few of the sites suggested Mariposa, Satsuma, or Santa Rosa.

And also if someone can suggest a place around Sydney Hills district where I can get some cuttings. Happy to pay but certainly I don't want to buy a whole new plant. 

PS. i am also keen on experimenting with grafting a lime onto my establish lemon tree. 

peter 1000 says...
hi saf,
if you decide on mariposa and cant get
any i can send you some scion
from mine as well as donsworth if
you like.

peter 1000 says...
ok. email sent

CH says...
I am looking at buying a dwarf Mariposa plum and would like to attempt to graft or bud a cutting of dwarf Satsuma onto the same rootstock to enable it to cross pollinate.

Does anyone have any advice on doing this, is it a good idea?

If so what is the best method to use to attach the Satsuma onto the Mariposa rootstock but on the opposite side to the Mariposa branch? If I attempt this will it damage the Mariposa?

Also, what is the best time of year to do it?

Thanks.
C

BenW says...
A plastic bag carefully placed over the scion after you have grafted it is good for plums. Leave it a couple of weeks, then take it off (carefully), even if you aren't sure whether the graft has taken. The extra humidity helps but too long and you'll promote rot :)

Jason says...
Plums are super easy to graft, so long as its all lined up any cut will work. Don't think I've ever had one fail and I don't try hard with stone fruits. You should be grafting plums just about right now.

They say apples are the easiest to graft but plums must be right there with them.

srt says...
Excellent summary. You are clearly knowledgeable.

BenW says...
Hi CH

The problem isn't with the combination you want - plums are pretty forgiving. You shouldn't graft a European plum onto a Japanese, but you can go the other way. That's about it. (the ones you mention are all Japanese).

The problem I was talking about relates to side wedge grafting, which is a method sometimes used to add a number of varieties in one go. I pulled an image from the web.

See how upright the graft is, and how close to the main stem? That join will never heal strongly and will probably break when it gets heavy with fruit. It would be OK if you cut off the main stem once the graft took, but that defeats the purpose :)

The best thing to do is find a tree with branches in the right spots for an open vase: 3-5 branches spaced around the tree, vertically separated on the trunk, with good angles from the trunk. Google open vase to get some images.

Even if your tree isn't perfect, new branches you can use will probably grow and you can graft onto them next year.

Petty's probably won't have dwarf rootstock for plums. These are a very new release, not widely available, except for those Plantnet tagged dwarf stone fruit trees that have appeared the last couple of years, so if you really want a dwarf, you will need to buy one of those. I'm pretty sure I saw some in Bunnings the other day.

I keep my full size plums to 2 ish meters tall with summer pruning, and they will be hardier than dwarfs. You need to commit to diligent pruning though.

I'm not sure what the current prices at Petty's are. Scion is usually 2 or 3 dollars a piece, and a couple more if you want someone to do the graft for you. Rootstock maybe $10, but these would be much better suited for a single graft.

I help out there from time to time but I try to avoid having much to do with the administrative side of things, so if you want to know for sure, email them :)

Pictures - Click to enlarge
Picture: 1

BenW says...
No worries CH, glad it made sense :)

45-60 degrees is about right for your scaffold branches. You can tie branches down(or up) to a good angle while they are young. If you can easily bend the branch to the right angle, it's fine. If it looks or feels like it is putting stress where it joins the trunk when you do it, don't count that as a scaffold branch as you really should cut it off.

I have reused a picture of a peach I posted a week or so ago. It's a bit hard to see, but the angles at the trunk are good and they are nicely spaced branches. The branches are a bit upright, but can easily be tied down to good angles.

Just choose the best tree you can find. Most problems can be fixed if you do it while the tree is young. To be honest, you could choose the worst tree there, bung it in the ground and never prune or care for it and it would probably still fruit just fine. By taking care at this stage though, your tree will be easier to manage, with less chance of disease, split branches, ect.

Pictures - Click to enlarge
Picture: 1

BenW says...
Hey CH

I've always be told to graft plums a little later, in August (for Victoria)when the sap is starting to run. It would probably be fine now as well. It is actually OK if the rootstock isn't 100% dormant, so long as the scion (your cutting)is.

If you need to store scion, put it in an airtight ziplock bag in the fridge with a little damp sphagnum or wrapped in damp newspaper - just damp, not sopping. It will keep that way for months.

Personally, I would plant my tree now - the less time it is barerooted the better. If you aren't 100% confident on the grafting part, store your scion for now and there will be demos at the grafting day which might help. Grafting satsuma on now and then adding another variety after the grafting day would also work just fine I would think.

My suggestion - read about the techniques, preferably watch a video or 2 on youtube, then practice grafting bits of prunings together until you get nice joins. I do this every year before I try any real grafts :)

BenW says...
I must admit, I usually wait till at least late July.

Given that there are grafting days in my area from next weekend, I'm still pretty sure it would be OK :)

Markmelb says...
LOL - anytime between now and end of august - potting doesnt matter as long as roots are moist or heeled into ground - i did a couple for a friend yesterday on a dwarf satsuma in a pot.
Mariposa and a cotton candy just for fun :)

CH says...
BenW, is the grafting day on tomorrow? I have tried accessing Petty's website to check the day but the website is currently down. Will the rain cause the day to be called off?

I was thinking about bringing my Mariposa and scions with me so someone can help me with the graft but now that it is potted I don't think it will fit in my car!

CH says...
Excellent. I will see you tomorrow, BenW.

BenW says...
Hi Chris

Just glad to see someone younger than me interested in fruit trees :D

If you are having trouble getting a nice cut, that seems likely. Either that, or your angle is a bit off (if you make the cut more than say 2cm, you get a wavy cut), or you are putting the tongue cut in the wrong position perhaps?

I got one at the Seymour field days about 5 years ago, and another at a budding day, I don't actually know where to buy one off the shelf.

Online might be the way to go. These look Ok to me
http://www.forestrytools.com.au/index.php?id=405
http://www.forestrytools.com.au/index.php?id=404

Good luck :)

And yes, it was browns blood. Got a piece of that one myself...

CH says...
Cheers Ben, I will keep practising because it might have been because the angle was off, it definitely had that wavy look to it. I’ll try and keep it to about 2cm.
I was trying to look up Brown’s blood but couldn’t find anything on it, thought I must have had it wrong. Let me know how it goes because I might try that one next year!

Mark thanks for the advice, I have contacted BAAG about whether they have them in stock and will probably pop down there on the weekend to get one. I’m not sure what you mean about the reshaping it to a ‘true triangle’ comment though?

Markmelb says...
CH - the Video link above explains the triangle blade shape - flat on bottom and blade goes from thick at rear to nothing at edge so no 45deg edge or whatever like a knife - i think i used 400 wet and dry wet and down to 100 then polished with leather as he explains and then fibreglass polish compound and the leather strap I made - totally different technique to a knife :)

CH says...
Thanks heaps guys for helping out, I can't believe how willing you all are to share your knowledge like this - it's awesome and very much appreciated.

Mark I hadn't had the chance to check out the video properly but now I understand what you are talking about - thanks for the explanation.

I've decided to just give it a go and hope for the best, if it doesn't work I'll try again next year. Fingers crossed!

BlackThumbed says...
Hi everyone!

So, at the moment I have a semi-dormant peachcot tree that i'd love to graft some blood plums onto.

Firstly, would this combination even work? I know that most stone fruits can be inter-grafted, but i've never really heard of this combination before (peachcot or nectarine base, plum top)

Also, I have one of those 'grafting tools' (image attached) that i've used to try and graft in the past. Could I still use it for this?

Finally, would anyone be generous enough to provide some scionwood of the Santa Rosa, Mariposa, Satsuma or Cot-n-candy cultivar? I would offer some of my peach, nectarine or peachcot scionwood but unfortunately the weather in Melbourne has been unusually warm and all my trees have already flowered and leafed out!

Thank you all so much and if you have any more grafting tips please enlighten me haha.

BlackThumbed