White Sapote "Dade" (forum)

Phil@Tyalgum starts with ...
If anyone on the Gold Coast is interested in an established white sapote, there is a "Dade" variety going for a good price at a run down nursery in Nerang - Sophia's Garden Centre, behind the statues near the front entrance. Worth picking up.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

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Time: 25th May 2011 11:18am

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About the Author TyalgumPhil
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M Nash says...
Gday Phil, Im in the area next monday. Ill check it out if it is still there.
Good price?
Might go well with my Golden Globe

Time: 25th May 2011 11:46am

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About the Author MNash1
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Phil@Tyalgum says...
K - even tho it's not labelled with the variety, I bought one there last year and the remaining tree needs a good home. Head towards the fruit tree section you'll spot it on the left.

Time: 25th May 2011 12:08pm

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Jason says...
Don't buy a Dade if you are running out of space it's probably the worst tasting sapote that exists. Just a heads up :)

Time: 25th May 2011 12:54pm

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Phil@Tyalgum says...
I think when grown in the subtropics it develops a fuller flavour. My Dade fruit is nicer than Pike and almost reaches Suebelle which I tasted once in the US

Time: 25th May 2011 5:22pm

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amanda says...
There are so many variables (IMHO) as to how different fruits (and veg) end up tasting..? Not only the location and climate, the soil, the feeding - but even the changes within the same garden seasonally...?
eg: my cedar bay cherry has been a yukky fruit for the last 2yrs...I wouldn't even bother to eat it. But - right now - the bush is loaded and the fruit is actually quite nice..?
I think it may be something to do with the weather this summer - it was very humid for us...(?)

Has anyone else had an established fruit tree that has done this turn-around?

Time: 25th May 2011 8:48pm

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About the Author amanda19
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Simone says...
Yes I'd have to agree with Phil, my Dade sapote has terrific tasting fruit, although this year's crops were a little too heavy so were smaller than usual. A real winner.

Time: 25th May 2011 10:18pm

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Jason says...
Well at least here in Victoria if I was going to rate Pike as say... 70% I'd rate Dade about.. 3% I've never swallowed a bite of it, and neither has anyone else I've given it too, put it that way :). Definitely one to taste and spit out.

It has a lot more flavour that Pike but in all the wrong ways. I have a few wolly leaf sapotes and they are all almost as bad as each other. I had read that some people have an aversion to the sapotes with wolly leaf genes in them. Phil did you get some of those Chris sapotes to ripen yet? I'd like to know if that's mango rival worthy like it is here

Time: 25th May 2011 10:50pm

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Original Post was last edited: 25th May 2011 10:52pm

About the Author Jason
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Adrian says...
My Dade sapote is sublime, have had it for many years and it rates as one of my favourite fruits - far better than Vista or Golden Globe in my opinion. Jason you're probably in a pretty marginal area to get the best out of your trees, no doubt affecting flavour.

Time: 26th May 2011 7:27am

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Jason says...
Adrian, I'm not marginal for the majority of White Sapotes at all, certainly all the Mexican ones grow rapidly and make tons of high quality great tasting fruit, they also self seed without any problem. So I'm sure my climate is near perfect for the actual high land race of Mexican sapotes in fact they grow more strongly here than they do in Mexico. The later those things ripen in Winter the better they taste. The Winter crop tastes a lot better then the Summer crop too.

But Dade is a wolly or semi wolly leaf selected in Florida. I do have one pure breed wolly leaf called "Smathers" which also tastes very bad so maybe this species/sub species doesn't deal with low heat.

In the Julia Morton's book they say this "The woolly-leaved white sapote is native from Yucatan to Costa Rica and has not been widely distributed in cultivation. According to Chandler, the fruits are objectionably bitter in California. In southern Florida, the woolly-leaved is sometimes planted in preference to C. edulis.".

I've read this before but figured that the people in Florida were only planting wolly leafs because they couldn't grow decent edulis and were just making do with lesser quality fruit. But if you guys are sure those things taste good then either your climate is making C edulis no good or the wolly leaf really is outright better in a warm climate or maybe a bit of both.

I've read the normal sapote C. edulis doesn't taste good or set much fruit in the tropics before so maybe there's a crossover point somewhere where one tastes better than the other, the problem is that a lot of them are hybrids

Time: 26th May 2011 9:59am

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Phil@Tyalgum says...
Jason do you have "Mac's Golden" at all? Saw one for sale recently, wondered if it was worth getting, I think it has woolly leaved genes in its parentage. I haven't had a lot of luck with Chris as yet, always looks a bit sickly and leaves yellow halfway through the season. Might need to plant one in full sun - how do you rate the fruit?

Time: 26th May 2011 10:49am

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Jason says...
The fruit on Chris is by faaaaaar the best sapote I've tasted but... It's the only sapote I have where one is not enough. But there's a little problem, I've only ever had two or three fruit on it :). It does look yellow and sick most of the time and mine is in full sun, quite a interesting anomaly of nature that tree.

I have Mac's golden, it has no fuzz on the leaves at all but the fruit show signs of maybe being partly a wolly leaf/ maybe, but not much if it is. It's a very light cropper here with average fruit and has a weeping habit.

The tree's that crop really heavy for me so far are Pike and Vista both those will break branches because of heavy fruit. I have a few promising seedlings too

Time: 26th May 2011 11:04am

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J says...
Phil, My chris is always yellow. It grows and the new leaves are yellow too. I think Jason has the same experience. Same application for fertilizer to the sapotes around it. They have green leaves, the chris doesn't.

Time: 26th May 2011 11:12am

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About the Author J
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Phil@Tyalgum says...
Just checked my Lemon Gold which has been in the ground for only eight months or so and has put on about three feet of growth since March. One windy day and it has all snapped off above the older wood.. luckily it's a fast grower

Time: 26th May 2011 5:13pm

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amanda says...
Oh Phil - that's a bummer - I will have to watch mine here in windy Gero then...they are such a challenge for me when it comes to pruning that I have just left them...?

Jason - you are amazing! You must have every variety going..? I never knew there was a woolly one. The commercial grower way down south WA also mentioned about the same things about growing W.P in the tropics. You and he would have much to talk about - I can give u his number if you are interested.


Time: 26th May 2011 5:26pm

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Jason says...
Amanda I don't have that many really, its just lucky when I was getting some there were more easily available than there is now days.

If I wanted to collect them now I'd almost have to smuggle wood from California, but then I'd be able to have hundreds of varieties :). Even in California there's only one guy that has all/most the varieties. If you go on the cloudforest.com now. Those guys have just come back from a trip to that guys orchard, hopefully they have some pictures. If Mexico ever calms down I'll go to the mountains with one of the guys from California and try and find some kind of better sapote. All the current varieties are just seedlings of seed Mexicans brang with them, only one or two have been selected in Mexico itself. It's not that easy a tree to find even in it's natural range

Time: 26th May 2011 5:46pm

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Original Post was last edited: 26th May 2011 5:48pm

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Dave says...
Jason - I was wondering how they went at Bobs grove as they have been organising that trip for quite some time with great persistance and boy did it pay off! What a bonanza and what a great thrill to have Bob there as guide.
I wish we had that many varieties here, I heard we have about 21 or so in Australia (not sure how accurate that is), but maybe half of that number I have heard talked about and available. The 'rainbow' still intrigues me, I do wonder what it would taste like grown here in Victoria (maybe like the taste of a rainbow). I would love to do a trip to Mexico to source the golden chalice of white sapotes, and just hang out there, perhaps one day.
Also, still wondering what the Reinecke tastes like here in the south, never heard any reports how it rates taste wise, did you manage to get any fruiting this season Jason?

Time: 26th May 2011 10:39pm

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About the Author Dave
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Jason says...
Dave I did get Reinecke's over summer this year. I wrote a note about it here

http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/gardening/reinecke-commercial-impressions-t261.html

Time: 27th May 2011 4:53am

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Robert says...
Has anyone got a wilson white sapote. What is there growth habit like and what does the fruit taste like

Time: 20th May 2012 8:09pm

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About the Author Robert13
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Phil@Tyalgum says...
Good to see Daleys is stocking White Sapote again. Had a nice little "Reinecke Commercial" delivered yesterday. Also noticed another "Dade" at Bunnings, Tweed Heads, lost and unloved amongst the other subtropical trees as it is missing its tag.

Time: 13th February 2013 7:30pm

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Original Post was last edited: 14th February 2013 1:34pm

About the Author TyalgumPhil
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VF says...
Hear hear Phil. I dehydrated some White Sap. in the ezi-dri the other day, very delicious and worth the effort.

Time: 14th February 2013 7:51am

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About the Author VF
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amanda says...
Can't wait for white sapote season - especially now I live so much closer to the only commercial plantation in WA...I plan on pigging out! :D

Nice to know that they can be dried VF...did u do leathers or pieces?

Time: 14th February 2013 12:08pm

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MaryT says...
VF & Amanda which model of dehydrator do you have and what is your opinion of them? I am thinking of getting one, that is, if I decide not to move.

Time: 14th February 2013 1:19pm

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About the Author MaryT
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VF says...
Amanda, I just had slices (too lazy to try leathers).

MaryT, I have the large ezidri - I find it does a great job, has lots of room, variable temperature set, came with inserts for fine textured fruits and leathers, is expandable (can buy extra trays),and good safety features ( Amanda's story about one that caught fire made this a must).The only con I find is storage, as it's big and round.

Time: 15th February 2013 7:12am

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About the Author VF
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MaryT says...
Thanks, VF. Yes, big and round would be a problem here. My place is tiny. It might have to live outside. :)

Time: 15th February 2013 8:02am

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amanda says...
I have Ezi Dry too MaryT :) VF you are probably too busy in your garden to be lazy I think!? :D

Time: 15th February 2013 9:18am

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VF says...
Haha, too kind Amanda! Hope you're staying safe - heard that serious fire going through your area.

Time: 16th February 2013 7:44am

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Original Post was last edited: 16th February 2013 7:45am

About the Author VF
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amanda says...
All good VF - it was like being a war zone last nite with the amount of air traffic taking water to the fire...amazing people who do a wonderful job! They are the real hero's who should be on page 3 - not some bimbo 'super' model hey ;-)

Time: 16th February 2013 10:56am

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VF says...
That's good Amanda, and I couldn't agree with you more.

Time: 17th February 2013 7:13am

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Jantina says...
Strange isn't it the $ value our society puts on actors (millions per movie) football players, models etc but money can't be found to cleanup rivers or humanitarian causes.

MaryT I have an Excaliber dehydrator and love it, not cheap though.

Time: 17th February 2013 9:35am

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MaryT says...
Jantina and Amanda, we must teach the next generation better values... I've seen a 'wish list' from a great nephew who will turn eight next month

Time: 17th February 2013 3:52pm

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Jason says...
When Jason mkii is born in June. We are raising him via the 1970s. I have an Atari and a Commodore 64 waiting. Nothing more tech than that. Plus he's starting Karate at age 3 as a lead in to table tennis once he can see over the table lol. Going to try and teach him that veggies only come from those you can grow in the hope he becomes a decent veggie gardener unlike me who can only grow trees.

I'm going to make him a deal that he can stay inside as much as he wants. So long as his vitamin d level never drops below 100 without pills that'll fix that: )

Time: 17th February 2013 6:14pm

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About the Author Jason
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MaryT says...
Lucky Jason Jnr., Jason. Wish I was taught as a child but my family had no land. We never had land so I feel lucky to have my tiny plot now.

Time: 17th February 2013 6:53pm

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