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Rare Peach Tree

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LilianT starts with ...
Hi everyone. I'm hoping for a bit of advice/opinions here - I'm seeking a peach tree that we used to have. It was a clingstone peach with yellow flesh and some red mottling through the flesh itself. It was bought in the 1970's from a Woolies store of all places and we've since had a Golden Queen clingstone which was far inferior to it in terms of flavour etc. Can anyone hazard a guess as to what it was and where I can get another one? I had one suggestion that it was an Abiacuto clingstone peach but I've no idea where to get one of those either. Any suggestions, advice or tips would be welcome.
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Lilian
Melbourne
12th July 2013 10:40am
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Original Post was last edited: 12th July 2013 10:46pm
jakfruit etiquette says...
Try this organisation, I just found out about it, but might be a start.
http://www.heritagefruitssociety.org.au/index.html
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jakfruit etiquette
 
13th July 2013 8:43am
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LilianT says...
Thanks! I've emailed them, so waiting for a reply right now. Did check the website but not sure if their varieties match what we had. Perhaps exposure to the sun makes a difference?
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Lilian
Melbourne
13th July 2013 8:21pm
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jakfruit etiquette says...
It sounds like an old variety, not weather or sun. Old fruit growing books from the 60's + 70's,Stonefruit nursery catalogs, Burnley college library, South Aust Rare Fruit society might be ways to find out more ?
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jakfruit etiquette
 
14th July 2013 10:55am
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Chris says...
Unfortunately many of the rarer varieties disappeared when Goodman closed, sold and had their production nursery razed to the ground a few years ago. They had the largest collection of stone fruits in the country.
Do you know when it matured?
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Chris
Sydney
14th July 2013 2:14pm
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jakfruit etiquette says...
This is from the SA RF society
http://www.rarefruit-sa.org.au/Varieties.htm#Peach
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jakfruit etiquette
 
14th July 2013 5:34pm
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LilianT says...
Unfortunately, not a clue. The variety was suggested by the SA Rare Fruits Society but I just got confirmation that they've never seen anyone sell it either. And since I'm in Melbourne, there's no way I can attend one of their meetings. The name sounds sort of Italian maybe?
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Lilian
Melbourne
15th July 2013 1:29pm
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Boris Spasky says...
Only similar peach may be Italian Red Cling(very very late).
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Boris Spasky
 
15th July 2013 6:02pm
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LilianT says...
On it - just ordered from Balhannah Nurseries in SA. Here's hoping that's it. Why do we see such a limited line of clingstone peaches by the way? I'd never looked before, but its pretty sad - 1 variety in Bunnings and Gardenworld which was Golden Queen. Seems odd - saw a lovely blood peach called Indian Blood Cling with white and red flesh but that seems to be mostly europe and US, nothing much here for some reason. Quarantine perhaps?
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Lilian
Melbourne
16th July 2013 10:27am
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Boris Spasky says...
The same reason nearly 10% of total number of trees in Australia or ~ 750,000 peach trees are being ripped up and burnt around Shepparton.
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Boris Spasky
 
16th July 2013 1:42pm
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Saugus says...
It is my method to keep eating peaches off trees and supermarkets and when you get a really good one plant the seed. You nearly always get something really tasty and you only need wait 3 years
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Saugus
 
16th July 2013 2:46pm
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Jason says...
True enough, it's a waste of time buying grafted peach trees, all we are doing is reducing the gene pool further.

All seedling peach trees produce great fruit, there are no bad gene left. So you are far better off planting seeds from a fruit you like. At least then it's genetics are not lost for future generations and to the totally honest the current commercial varieties are sub par compared to almost any seedling that was around in the 1970s
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Jason
Portland
18th July 2013 5:06am
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Original Post was last edited: 18th July 2013 5:07am
LilianT says...
Too true. Fruits, especially stone fruits, don't taste like they used to and finding older varieties is actually pretty tough.

How do you plant the seeds? Don't they need treatment of some sort? I've heard everything from sticking them in the fridge or cracking the stone etc. How does that work for peaches?
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Lilian
Melbourne
18th July 2013 1:26pm
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Original Post was last edited: 18th July 2013 1:31pm
Jason says...
3 months in a zip bag in moss in the fridge works for just about all prunus. On the other hand cracking them open and planting the kernel in a warm pot works excellent for apricots and probably works on peaches too. But the fridge is fail proof
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Jason
Portland
18th July 2013 2:25pm
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LilianT says...
Thanks Jason. I'll give it a go. I don't need any growth hormone do I? I've heard of that in relation to grafting? cuttings? but no need for anything else?
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Lilian
Melbourne
13th August 2013 2:39pm
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Jason says...
Nah not for those seeds, it can help with cuttings.
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Jason
Portland
13th August 2013 5:17pm
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LilianT says...
Just another query here - has anyone heard of Indian Blood Cling peach around? Everything I've seen says its only its Europe or USA. Looks great but I've never heard of it in Australia at all. Or NZ for that matter.
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Lilian
Melbourne
15th August 2013 2:06pm
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Juneli says...
I think the peach is called "Black Boy" here in Australia and New Zealand.If anyone has any seeds of his variety I would love to buy them from you.
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Juneli
Mackay
18th August 2013 2:47pm
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LilianT says...
What's known as a Black Boy peach in NZ is similar but its a freestone peach and is sold here as a Pleach (apparently it has to do with a Black Boy cherry so I suppose its to prevent confusion with the name). Its actually pretty odd - they say its a peach/plum cross but I'm certain it isn't since I've checked overseas sites and it seems that Black Boy peach = Peche de Vigne = Pleach. I'm after the clingstone version right now though.

Yalca sells Pleach trees - I just bought one myself but it'll probably be a while before I see any fruit and seeds since right now its a sad little stick...

Hope it helps.
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Lilian
Melbourne
19th August 2013 2:42pm
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amanda says...
It likely not called black boy peach in Aust due to the racial overtones....just as we now call black boys (Xanthorrhoea) - grass trees instead...?

(from Wiki: "Some people now consider this name to be offensive, or at least belonging to the past, preferring instead grasstree."
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amanda19
Leschenault (150km south of Perth)
20th August 2013 9:14am
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LilianT says...
The Xanthorrhoea sounds terrible. Very unfortunate name there. But I'd agree re: reasons for the name. I suppose its an indicator of how old the variety is.

Anyway, if anyone has any leads on this one, I'd love to know.
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Lilian
Melbourne
21st August 2013 3:04pm
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Mike says...
Grasstrees' name does sound like a yellow South American bird alright.
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22nd August 2013 7:35am
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People who Like this Question janebelle1
MJH says...
The Indian Blood Peach http://www.davewilson.com/product-information/product/indian-blood-cling-peach)is delicious. We used to buy the fruit from a fabulous green grocer in Warragul Victoria where someone was growing it locally. We tried grafting a cutting but it did not take, and have been trying to find someone who sells the tree since. Apparently the trees can be found in the US but nothing so far in Australia. They are the best tasting peach we have ever tried. If anyone has any leads we would be so grateful!
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MJH
Upwey
14th June 2014 9:45am
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Jason says...
MJH, you would have been eating the fruit Flemings sell as "Pleach" and New Zealanders call Blackboy. It looks identical to that one and is common in Victoria. It tastes different to a real Peach, Somme people seem to really like it. I don't think its as good as a legit peach myself but its much more disease proof.
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Jason
Portland
16th June 2014 5:20pm
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BenW says...
MJH, I got my hands on one today, from Bulleen Art and Garden. They had about half a dozen left, if you feel like a Sunday drive.

I don't know they are that common - I've been chasing one for a couple of years! The only place I have seen them advertised is Yalca Fruit trees and they always sell out before I can get my hands on one :)

Leaf curl is a big problem at my place with our cool, wet spring, and I believe they are somewhat resistant - we'll see I guess.
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BenW
Kinglake West,3757,VIC
21st June 2014 6:02pm
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People who Like this Answer: Linton
BenW says...
Most years I get pretty severe defoliation here. I just can't seem to get the spraying right... Those rare crops of exquisite fruit keep my trying though :)

I've worked out my soil is pretty calcium / potash deficient. Ammending that will help but I doubt it will fix it completely.

I have been to the budding days at Werribee mansion looking for resistant varieties, (they have 30+ to bud, usually). Apparently leaf curl isn't an issue for the guys growing on the dryer basalt plains down there though, so they don't have much advice on that front.

Bulleen art and garden also had one called 'no bubble no trouble' which is supposedly immune to leaf curl. No word on the taste, but how bad can a tree ripened peach be?...

I'm wondering whether a little bit of that grafted onto the more susceptible varieties I have would help them recover in the bad years. Might be worth a try.
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BenW
Kinglake West,3757,VIC
22nd June 2014 1:07pm
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srt says...
Here is what you do : 1) prune heavily and burn prunings 2) cover ground with mulch to smother overwintering spores #3 spray in autumn with a fungicide ,I use Ziram #4 at 50%leaf fall spray full strength Bordeaux mixture 5) repeat at full leaf fall 6)again spray Bordeaux at bud swell . 7) rept Ziram at bud burst . Once under control you may not need to do all this every year.
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srt
giraween
22nd June 2014 3:03pm
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MJH says...
Fabulous - thanks so much BenW. I really appreciate you posting, and will certainly make the trip.
Cheers.
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MJH
Upwey
24th June 2014 8:51pm
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MJH says...
It could well be Jason. I am just so pleased that BenW seems to have found some. I can't wait to get it in to the ground.
Cheers.
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MJH
Upwey
24th June 2014 8:53pm
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Jason says...
BenW I literally can only JUST grow regular peaches, due to extreme leaf curl the trees are always half dead. I have next to no leaf curl on pleach/blackboy type hybrids though. Big difference between them for sure.
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Jason
Portland
26th June 2014 2:15pm
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Original Post was last edited: 26th June 2014 2:15pm
Markmelb says...
Hi Jason - Have you tried Yates Liquid copper - its amazing - I tried on my peacharine last winter and had hardly any leaf curl and previous to that had shocking curl after using copper powder products like bordeaux- give it a go this year mate - how are your avo grafts going? - my 2 are going great - the Reed has grown 10 - 12 inches and is still growing - the Lamb Hass has slowed but looks good - cheers Mark
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Markmelb
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26th June 2014 7:17pm
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port says...
I'm afraid there is a lot of bad advice about on leaf curl. iF YOU LOOK AT REASEARCH ARTICLES IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT TO TIME THE SPRAYS CORRECTLY. The most important spray is when the buds begin to unfurl a little and expose the fungus. And yes Bordeaux is good if you make it up yourself.
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port
manly
27th June 2014 9:00am
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BenW says...
Has anyone tried biological control with Trichoderma?

As mentioned above I get it pretty servery, which I will try and rectify with some improved management and a chemical blitz, but long term I like the idea of Trichoderma much more.

The biggest problem I have with copper sprays is getting dry days appropriate for spraying at the right times of year. As I understand it, Trichoderma is applied during the growing season, where the weather is a lot more amenable.
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BenW
Kinglake West,3757,VIC
27th June 2014 4:24pm
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Markmelb says...
try the Yates liquid copper - i think yu will thank me - ive tried mixing my own over the years nearly killing the tree that took a few years to recover from the lime and copper mix i used - did black tea too useless - yes timing is correct just b4 bud burst - i do 4 sprays now and on the ground too with last on bud burst
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Markmelb
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27th June 2014 5:40pm
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Jason says...
Hi Mark I haven't tried to Yates copper. But I do have seed of practically every latest peach and nectarine variety out of the states. Been collecting them from the supermarkets all year (I only buy one of each fruit Lol). I'm assuming these will be somewhat resistant. But I'll try the copper.

The Avocados are fine, not growing again yet because they are sitting outside in the rain and its very cold. Moving them bare rooted into single pots knocked them around but they eventually recovered.

I'll be planting them out in spring. All the ones I wanted survived. 3x Reed, 2x flowering seedling, 1x weird large leafed seedling). The original seedlings are self seeded and beside the house and need to be cut down hence the grafting.

Its pretty wet here right now, having the pressure tank on the pump split yesterday and putting another 10,000 litres on the lawn didn't help.
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Jason
Portland
28th June 2014 6:41pm
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Original Post was last edited: 28th June 2014 6:39pm
Markmelb says...
wow Jason - thats a big leak - I wish I had the room to experiment like you with peach varieties - I planted 2 seedling American PawPaws today i grew from seed last year that have already started to bud up - only a foot tall but I known they are slow - had some reasonable roots too which is good - I planted behind a cherry for summer shade till they mature a bit - a bacon I tried was delish and the lamb hass are still a couple months to go - :)
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Markmelb
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28th June 2014 10:02pm
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Jason says...
How in the world are you eating bacon in June?. Mine are not even half size yet. The heat in Melbourne must be just incredible compared to Victoria's natural climate.
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Jason
Portland
29th June 2014 9:55pm
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Linton says...
Indian Blood Peach.

Could you please tell me if the Indian Blood Peach trees available from BAAG are grafted. I'm assuming they are, and how big are they and how long do you think they will take before they produce fruit. Thanks.
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Linton
Springvale, Vic
1st July 2014 4:47pm
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Markmelb says...
Jayson - Ill put up a photo of bacon tomorrow but heres a pic of a Fuerte from my Richmond Tree at my old flats (still my tree - lol) against a Lamb Hass on 2mt Avo in 100lt Bag
Pic 1 Fuerte on left weighs 285gm hope Lamb Hass is still growing
Pic 2 Same Fuerte next to Bacon
So Jason your Bacons must be half this size from what you say so mine are doing okay growth wise in Mt Waverley as is 2deg colder than the Richmond Fuerte - like to see some current pics of yours if you can - cheers,Mark
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Picture: 1

Picture: 2
 
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Markmelb
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2nd July 2014 8:31am
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Original Post was last edited: 2nd July 2014 8:27am
Jason says...
I'll look at mine later Mark to see how they are but they definitely won't be ripe before September. Never have been in the last 14 crops. I'll get a picture. Fuerte is later again. December or so.
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Jason
Portland
3rd July 2014 4:14pm
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Markmelb says...
Jason - I opened a fuerte today really nice even though a tad firm and seed had a 1.5cm root on it - so defintely ripe - found that one lying on ground nibbled by rats near stem end.
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Markmelb
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3rd July 2014 5:36pm
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BenW says...
Is anyone 100% certain blackboy = indian blood? Internet sources are telling me different things about this one.

@Linton, I think I got the pick of the ones at BAAG. In it's pot it is 2M tall, with 3 nicely spaced branches. A bit upright but I can weight them down a little. And yes, grafted.

Plenty of fruiting wood on it, so maybe a few fruit this year which I really should pick off. I would be surprised if it doesn't have a small crop next year.

I have one branch with a bad crotch angle that should come off if you want some scion. I've had more luck with whip and tounge grafts in winter than summer budding for peaches, no matter what the books tell me :)
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Picture: 1
  
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BenW
Kinglake West,3757,VIC
3rd July 2014 9:52pm
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Jason says...
I'm not 100% sure I can only tell you they look identical and how many plum x peach hybrids are there?, about one? :)
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Jason
Portland
4th July 2014 4:19pm
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BenW says...
Some sources indicate that Indian blood is a derivative of P
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BenW
Kinglake West,3757,VIC
5th July 2014 12:36am
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Linton says...
Red Indian Blackboy Peach readily available.......but what is it?


Thanks for the offer of the scion but since I am not proficient with grafting and the trees are readily available from a number of nurseries in my area, it would hardly be worth the trouble to undertake grafting. Also they are not that highly priced even for a 1.5 metre tree, and they can also be bought online from Garden Express.


The grower, JFT Nurseries, is wholesaling these under the name of Blackboy Indian Peach so the confusion continues to pervade as to whether they are one and the same species. Can you put a picture of the label if it has one? I just want to be sure that I
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Linton
Springvale, Vic
5th July 2014 11:58am
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BenW says...
It's label shows Prunus Persica, not interspecific.

Jason seems to have the most experience actually growing them though... I'm just relying on the interwebs.

I'll reserve judgement until I've had mine in the ground a few years :)
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Picture: 2
 
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BenW
Kinglake West,3757,VIC
5th July 2014 1:40pm
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Jason says...
It looks all peach from the leaves, however the fruit has a very tart flavour and kind of.. Its just not all peach. It tastes almost like a sweet/sour plum jam. If its not a hybrid then its about as genetically removed from all other peaches as you can get.

I have a random seedling cherry plum in my garden which is a blood cherry plum... Which I don't think is possible so who knows what happened there.
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Jason
Portland
6th July 2014 6:17am
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Original Post was last edited: 6th July 2014 6:15am
VF says...
No doubt some boffin will rediscover the peach, and with the large amount of anthocyanins present, announce that it's a new super food.
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VF
Wongawallan
6th July 2014 9:39am
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Linton says...
Indian Blackboy Peach.

Yes the pictures in the labels are the same as the trees that are being sold in the nurseries around here as Blackboy Peach. They are probably all from the same wholesaler who is growing them in Monbulk.

But there is still no mention of it's origins or genetics. Will have to just try it and see!
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Linton
Springvale, Vic
6th July 2014 6:01pm
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Bern says...
BenW
Was your tree growing potted or was it a bare rooted tree they (BAAG) potted up this season, there is a big difference as the tree would need a big prune if it was bare rooted before planting out
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Bern
Melb
6th August 2014 4:08pm
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BenW says...
It's fairly firmly rooted, so it may have been grown to that size in the pot, or maybe BAAG just potted it this season

It's actually still in the pot, hopefully to be planted out this weekend. I'll assess the root system then.

I have 30+ peach/nectarine and haven't managed to kill one yet ;)
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BenW
Kinglake West,3757,VIC
7th August 2014 12:57pm
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Bern says...
That's an impressive No, is that individual trees or varieties, I have a keen interest in peaches 11P & 4N any chance of a list? may be able to swap some grafts etc in the future.
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Bern
Melb
7th August 2014 5:02pm
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BenW says...
The numbers are the same for both Bern :)

Haven't really bothered with multigrafts on them for some reason, though I do have some scion this year. I do better at grafting persica than budding for some reason...

A lot of what I have isn't that rare I'm afraid. They sound like selections from the Tatura program? My suggestion would be to look up Werribee Park Orchard, who will have a budding day in Feb.

If you email them they might give you a variety list, but they have a few more hardcore (can you be hardcore about fruit...?) members that have god knows what, if you attend one of their days and ask around :)
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BenW
Kinglake West,3757,VIC
7th August 2014 8:01pm
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Bern says...
Hi BenW just been into facebook and it appears you may have responded to Lois L
(my wife A/C),
I spoken to Richard on grafting day at Werribee & have list from there site.
My trees are older varieties & all about the taste, I had some budding success at Boonie Doon on my son trees.
I will try to graft some peaches as you seem to have had success with them.
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Bern
Melb
7th August 2014 10:09pm
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BenW says...
I think that was me indeed :)

I think I said I had 50% success rate? That was with very skinny, slightly dried out scion, onto potted seedlings, which I then let dry out over summer and lost a few from that that looked like they were going OK.

With proper care, especially onto established trees, 75% or better wouldn't surprise me.

The method I used is the one I use for apricots and plums. Whip and tongue, just 2 buds, then wrap with tape. Cover with a clear plastic bag for a couple of weeks, with a little hole to avoid too much condensation.

I have also had reasonable success with chip budding cherries in winter, but not sure if that applies to peaches...

You said that the orchard you want to propagate from was being removed? You don't really have anything to lose I guess :)
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BenW
Kinglake West,3757,VIC
7th August 2014 10:54pm
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Tomcatt777 says...
Lilian if you read this I have an Abiacuto peach in my yard, I got the budwood from rare fruit society SA meeting in 2012 and grafted it onto one of my peach trees, the graft is now a nice branch which will flower this coming spring and fruit should ripen in Feb 2016, have heard they are delicious so looking forward to that.
I have extensive experience at grafting and all my trees are multi graft especially my citrus trees, is there a FB page I can join to help anyone with any grafting tips and advice?
Adrian.
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Adrian
Adelaide
9th February 2015 5:19pm
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kiwiman says...
I believe I have an Indian Blood Cling growing in my garden.Was grown from a stone which came from a tree on a property originally owned by old Italian family.
Will be harvesting in a few days.Fruit certainly looks like pictures on net from USA sources.
Stewart
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kiwiman
Launching Place
3rd March 2015 10:54pm
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Peter T says...
Hi Lillian,

You may have got this information by now, but just incase..

A widely grown clingstone peach with a sunset of red/yellow in the centre is the Pullar Peach - widely grown in the Goulburn Valley and canned - hence in volumes that would be large enough for Woolworths in the 1970s. It became superseded in the 1980s when breeders could remove the redish pigments that did not look good when canned. You can get Pullar trees in some peach nurseries. Hope this helps.
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Peter T
SHEPPARTON
30th December 2019 6:07pm
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Lilian says...
Hi Peter,

Yes, I've picked up the Pullar clingstone but it's yet to fruit. The confirmation is very welcome though as I was worried I might wind up with the wrong peach.
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Lilian
Cheltenham
31st December 2019 3:16pm
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Adrian says...
Are you still around Lilian?
I live in Adelaide and grow a range of peaches.
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Adrian
MELROSE PARK,5039,SA
20th December 2022 10:18am
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Peter012 says...
Hi Adrian,
im also in adelaide, do you happen to have a blackburn alberta ?
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Peter012
ATHOL PARK,5012,SA
29th December 2022 6:53am
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