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Julie starts with ...
So what do you all think? A few new rules for the forum - if anyone will listen?

I had to log out as amanda and log in again as Julie, hence two separate threads.
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Julie
Roleystone WA
14th April 2011 5:31pm
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Original Post was last edited: 14th April 2011 5:33pm
Phil@Tyalgum says...
Sometimes I have to delete my own posts for security reasons (eg email addresses) and if a weblink doesn't work or I spell something incorrectly. As long as we can still edit our own posts there shouldn't be any probs with a moderator.
Pictures - Click to enlarge

Picture: 1
  
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PhilTyalgum4
Murwillumbah
14th April 2011 8:16pm
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Julie says...
Sure, most forums allow you to edit and delete your own posts. It's the idea that anyone other than a moderator can do that here that I am not happy with.
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Julie
Roleystone WA
14th April 2011 9:39pm
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Moderator_1 says...
The site is first and foremost an online nursery website. The forum is an adjunct feature.
To overhaul the forum using dedicated software would be a big job, something that requires additional resources and a full time moderator.
And what would be the point when of late many of the threads and posts are often personal and irrelevant to the fruit trees that daleysfruit.com.au has to offer.





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Chris
Kyogle
15th April 2011 9:32am
#UserID: 2281
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Original Post was last edited: 15th April 2011 9:33am
snottiegobble says...
Let me say that it is good to actually have an official moderator introduce themselves, but the forum set-up just revealed by Julie now creates doubt about even your authenticity!
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snottiegobble
Bunbury/Busso(smack in the middle)
15th April 2011 11:20am
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Jim says...
If you are a representative of Daleys then your comments are very short sighted.

I'm sure that most who use this forum appreciate that Daleys have set it up but Daleys should be just as appreciative that many of the most enthusiastic and knowledgeable non-commercial fruit growers in Australia use this site.

One only has to search Google for a rare plant to encounter this forum as one of the first hits. This is a big win for Daleys and creates a lot of exposure.

Like all internet forums people digress, make unnecessary personal attacks, and troll. By comparison this site is very good for staying on topic and being civil. That is not to say that if improvements are needed then they should not be considered. But as you said Daleys is a nursery so why would it bother with marketing and customer retention.

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electra
Freo
15th April 2011 1:23pm
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Julie says...
I forgot to mention that it was amanda who asked me to try this, so it was her idea.

I actually made (to amanda) some of the points put forward by the 'moderator'. I recognise that this forum is a sort of offshoot of a nursery business, and a moderator would cost money.

But Jim has a point too - Daleys gets a lot of exposure through this forum. It would be good if we could all come up with a win/win situation. The software issue I can do nothing about, but I'm sure we can sort out a few voluntary moderators.

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Julie
Roleystone WA
15th April 2011 2:34pm
#UserID: 154
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amanda says...
Hi Moderator... (it's the real amanda!) will the software support a basic password protected login?
Perhaps all members should be able to delete/modify their own posts - but not other peoples?
Maybe only a few voluntary moderators should have the ability to delete anyone's post?
Is this possible with the software?
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amanda19
 
15th April 2011 4:29pm
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Wayne says...
As moderator 1 says, this is a gardening site totally sponsored by Daleys Nurseries, they don't complain when you guys talk about all the good stuff you can buy from other nurseries and I can tell you for a fact that very few people give plugs to Daleys. You people talk about buying from Eden seeds or wherever but rarely from this site.
Anybody can delete any post in the forum but they must give a reason for doing so and when a moderator finds time he/she will check the post and then decide if it will be rejuvenated or not.

I haven't been making many posts over the past few months simply because this site has been degraded by the personal attacks being made by some.

People from around the world read the crap that some of you post and I, for one, wouldn't blame Daleys for shutting this site down. If you blokes want to keep this great site, start looking after it
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Wayne
Mackay QLD
16th April 2011 6:11pm
#UserID: 338
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Jim says...
I think you are missing point Wayne. The whole reason this debate started was because people want this site to be about gardening and not all the other crap.

Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and internet forums are probably most indicative of this.


Furthermore if you don't think that Daleys gets a good rap from the posters, please re-read through the threads, a good place to start would be Daleys vs Diggers https://www.daleysfruit.com.au/forum/daleys-vs-diggers/?PHPSESSID=7a9e1cbd0d726b79eb1a97a0a164230f


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electra
Freo
16th April 2011 6:52pm
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Wayne says...
I don't think I'm missing the point at all Jim, I'm just verifying the point that this is a gardening site, not a slanging match meeting for a couple of posters to stir crap. I think you had best read my post again

You quote one thread where Daleys get's favourably judged against another -- that does not happen to often

"Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and internet forums are probably most indicative of this" There is no excuse for anybody to be so in this forum

Anyhow, enough's enough
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Wayne
Mackay QLD
16th April 2011 7:04pm
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Original Post was last edited: 16th April 2011 7:08pm
Jim says...
No, I understood what you said but the fact is that a call for moderation is not a bad idea. This is not to excuse people from being idiots quite the contrary, if you act like an idiot your posts should be deleted and if continue to stir the pot then you should be banned. It is essentially how all other internet forums work.

I am not going to bother pulling up other threads that treat Daleys favourably but it is clear the vast majority of people on this site love Daleys.

Anyway as you said enough is enough and we would be guilty of what we are criticising if we continue this any furhter.

all the best

Jim


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electra
Freo
16th April 2011 7:22pm
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KjW says...
I'll second that Wayne..enough's enough

Maybe there needs to be a "General" thread for topics that don't pertain to actual gardening.
The ones that want their slanging matches etc, can go there and entertain themselves, leaving the rest of us to get on with reading more interesting and informative stuff.

Just a thought..
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John42
Rockhampton
16th April 2011 7:42pm
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amanda says...
For what its worth - I sent off an email to Daleys to see/ask if they can explain some things to us (eg: the limitations of the software and what they expect from Forum users)...maybe they will post a reply on Monday, with some luck..?

In the meantime - maybe a "cease fire" or truce could be an option?

From what I can gather about Forums - there is no way of banning anyone unless the email field is mandatory - and registered..?
Daleys might not be able to afford this software - and many sites are supported by external advertising (I think..?)

For those that may be worried about the remote chance of being impersonated or their security etc - then a gmail or hotmail account is the way to go...they are free too. You can set one up from your Google screen very easily.

This doesn't appear to be a "secure site" as they are prefaced by "https://" not "htpp://"
Maybe someone knows a bit more about this than me? - I am still learning.. ;-)
Unforunately KjW - history has proven that hasn't worked :-( the nasty posts pop up anywhere, at anytime, in any thread...and that's the whole prupose of trolling, sadly.
We can all resist the temptation to respond (myself included) - but new members often don't realise that this is what is happening - and so the cycle keeps going on and on and on....?

It's become very frustrating and I am with Wayne here - it's getting to the point where u just don't want to post anymore...?
I am currently on the lookout for another good gardening forum to join.

(ps Wayne - I wish it were just a few months - but going back thru the records it will be 2yrs, next month, that I was first trolled by a certain member.... I have given up that the problem is going to ever get resolved... :-(
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amanda19
 
16th April 2011 9:08pm
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Original Post was last edited: 16th April 2011 9:37pm
Jason says...
It took Axel 11 years to get around to update the cloudforest to a proper forum software and it's booming ever since. He doesn't have any commercial interests, it's just what he loves to do but for a commercial shop having a popular forum like this is advertising potential that can't be beat. You could even with something like google adsense make quite a lot of money from this site at the moment without having to plant a seed. Right now it actually out does the nursery itself which is not producing many plants at all in the last half a decade or having much of a range like they used to.

I used to spend hundred and hundreds of dollars at Daley's but there's really a big lack of varieties these days so there's really nothing else for me to buy. Oh well the point is, it's definitely worth installing some forum software :) and ramping up the nursery to match it if that's what they want, or if they want to keep it small then it probably doesn't matter so much. But if it was me I'd be making the forum bling and giving the people some plants to talk about and recommend to each other. P.S I'm still waiting for a Poshte plant, have been for at least 6 or 7 years :)
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Jason
Portland
16th April 2011 9:36pm
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Original Post was last edited: 16th April 2011 10:05pm
snottiegobble says...
I just happened to purchase a capulin cherry today at a field day! Googling "capulin cherry",then hitting " capulin soil types" gave me Daleys fruit tree forum, as No 1, 2, & 3 in the list! Do you know how much it costs to get that publicity normally? A hell of a lot I can tell you, so dont worry about Daleys shutting down the forum.
Oh BTW Amanda, youre in there too!
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snottiegobble
Bunbury/Busso(smack in themiddle)
16th April 2011 11:14pm
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Jason says...
snottie, did it tell you on google how big capulin trees are :P. I was looking at mine just today thinking......... How could you ever control this beast in a backyard. It seems to do a solid 6 feet every year without extra water or food
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Jason
Portland
17th April 2011 12:14am
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Original Post was last edited: 17th April 2011 12:15am
snottiegobble says...
Jason, one site says 25mtres & a couple of others 30 ft, but can be pruned to produce a fruiting hedge so it looks like the capulin is quite adaptable!
& yes, very fast growing so it will be handy for shading other stuff. I hope Amanda still has hers & can give us a few tips.
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snottiegobble
Bunbury/Busso(smack in themiddle)
17th April 2011 1:02am
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Jason says...
I just saw a picture of one that had fruit twice the size mine does :S, made me jealous. Mines over 30 feet already and only 11 years old. I've got the feeling if I cut it back to 15 feet it would grow 15 feet the next year anyway :P?.

I have another one that self seeded and, well I had a few of them but the mower ate some and the kangaroos the rest. All up I have 1 big one and two small ones left alive right now and maybe a few very small trees hiding in the grass
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Jason
Portland
17th April 2011 1:08am
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amanda says...
BTW - I recommend Daleys to lots of folk - even a commercial white sapote fruit grower just last week - who was thrilled to get their details....

(ps Jason....I thought I was doing poorly being on the wait-list for 2years for some things!? eek!)
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amanda19
 
17th April 2011 11:50am
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Rowan says...
I also recommend Daleys to many people but I don't buy much anymore because of the plants that they offer now don't suit me - I used to buy tubestock but they don't do enough now so I buy elsewhere.
Anyway - there are heaps of free and cheap forum options out there and there would be willing volunteers to moderate so I can't see the problem. I would like to see a more professional forum and it would really benefit Daleys (check out the Baker Creek/rare seeds forum www.idigmygarden.com for a good example of a garden business sponsored forum).
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krazykangaroo1
Casterton, Vic
17th April 2011 7:24pm
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Original Post was last edited: 17th April 2011 7:27pm
amanda says...
Wayne - did u delete your last post - or was it someone else?
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amanda19
 
18th April 2011 11:16am
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snottiegobble says...
Rowan , I agree with you to a point, but it lacks that relaxed Aussie informal rustic approach that we have here in Daleys!
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snottiegobble
Bunbury/Busso(smack in themiddle)
18th April 2011 5:22pm
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Correy says...
Hi,

This is Correy from Daleys Nursery. Every time a post is deleted it comes up in a report.

Here is an example:

Date: 16/11/2009 Delete It Keep It | View Forum [Open in new window]

Reason for deletion: r
Age of Post: 515 days ago
name: mango's, townsville,
Location: email address: xxxxxxxx
Topic: how to stop a mango tree from bearing fruit
Deleted By:

Hi, I have a large mango tree above my bush shack and it is a great shade tree but when the mango\'s fall it sounds like a shotgun hitting the roof. Is there any way of stopping it from fruiting as I would like to keep the shade.



These are things I keep in mind when deciding if to "Un-Delete" posts from the forum.

If a post was created over 50 days old I usually automatically "Un-Delete it"

Also I can see who was logged in when it was deleted. In this case no one so I am very dubious that it should stay deleted. Also they didn't give a decent reason.

If the person who deleted it didn't have an email address or give a decent reason then I "Un-Delete" it.

If the post was deleted by the same person that created it then I will always keep it deleted.

However I only do this once every couple of weeks. So if someone deletes your perfectly good post it may take about 3 weeks before you see it back on the site again. Also after I do this job all the emails get sent out to you assuming you entered a correct email address.

=============
The forums main purpose from Daleys perspective is to create a passion about fruit trees. We are happy for you to plug any business, tree or new idea you like.

Next purpose is we are a small business that sells plants that often require a lot of information. What was happening is that people ring us up and ask some really complicated questions. We would have to hire a few staff members just to answer the calls and emails.

We wanted to make it as easy as possible for someone to ask a question. So the forum has been set up so that you don't have to "Sign Up" remember usernames or passwords you just create a subject ask the question and click Submit. Other forums obviously are more strict which is why I have made it so anyone can delete posts. This works well for spam etc.
========

Does anyone want this job by the way?
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Correy
Brisbane QLD
20th April 2011 12:47pm
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MaryT says...
Thank you Correy for the explanation about the administration of this site. I think your system is working well with the limitation that you have and I thank you for doing a good job. Since it is a Daleys forum I think the job belongs to someone on staff.
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MaryT
Sydney
21st April 2011 2:20pm
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hawkypork says...
I have found this forum very civil to date. And its great that there are so many Perth/WA contributors.
Dont give up Amanda, take the high moral ground and simply ignore a hairy troll under the bridge.
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Fremantle
21st April 2011 3:05pm
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Brad says...
i don't think too many other forums send regular participants thankyous or give prizes for competitions either.

to truly impersonate someone on here, you need their eMail address and login to get their userID. although hawkypork above has id 0, so that can go wrong...

oooh i just got sidetracked...hey Correy - how come you only got #3? Kath got #2 and who is the sue @ #1???

by and large the forum interface works for its intended purpose. the search feature/google is very good. I still think its too easy to delete posts. Maybe only allow users to delete after they've been here a while (and still check those deletions)???

Do others get eMail updates? maybe my cookies get confused, but I don't seem to
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Brad2
G Hill,Perth
21st April 2011 4:04pm
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Julie says...
Brad, I used to get email updates, but not any more. But that's OK, because I'm here often enough to keep up with new posts.

It seems the only real issue now is the fact that anyone can delete. If this could be fixed, I'd be happy with the system. I am truly grateful that Daleys allows us to use this forum to share information - lets stick to that, and no more personal attacks!

It's not difficult to disagree with a point of view without being rude!
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Julie
Roleystone WA
21st April 2011 4:37pm
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snottiegobble says...
Yep. I get email updates. Somebody loves me after all.:)
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snottiegobble
Bunbury/Busso(smack in the middle)
21st April 2011 5:10pm
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Correy says...
I find that people who like fruit trees are 99% of the time nice to each other so the anonymous forum works here where as in other places it wouldn't.

We haven't done a forum competition in a while will do one next email newsletter.

Also next to Reply | Delete I will replace it with.

Reply | Agree | DisAgree | Spam

Then under each post I will tally the Agrees and Disagrees.

I find that sometimes people delete a post because they think the information is wrong. So maybe this will be a way of showing which posts are more accurate.

I saw this done on another forum and it worked quite well.
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Correy
Brisbane
29th April 2011 6:54am
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kert says...
How about a key for "Off Topic" . Most of the heat generated occurs when topics other than fruit trees are discussed. Lately we have had dissertations on how to get stoned , bowel problems and the odd helpful hint on curing cancer. Is there no way to filter this out?
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sydney
29th April 2011 9:40am
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Rastus says...
It's already there Kert, just hit Delete then type in (Off Topic) as the season why your deleting it.
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Aust
29th April 2011 11:46am
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Brad says...
Sounds good correy.
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Brad2
G Hill,Perth
29th April 2011 1:36pm
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snottiegobble says...
Correy, I have just read your explanation re. deletions (20th April)consequently I understand more & appreciate what you do!
Naw mate, dont want your job!
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snottiegobble
Bunbury/Busso(smack in the middle)
30th April 2011 11:42am
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Violet_Cactus says...
Thank you Correy and Daley's for hosting and moderating this forum, which fills a huge gap for Australian backyard fruit growers.
I have met people in real life who I first encountered on this forum, I have exchanged plants with people first hand and by mail, and I have enjoyed swapping ideas with forum participants.
The forum has made our lives - and gardens - richer. Hopefully it has also attracted more internet customers to Daley's.
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VioletCactus1
Melbourne
30th April 2011 9:51pm
#UserID: 516
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amanda says...
Well said Violet Cactus :) I agree with you too..(plus thanks to all those who have given me help and inspiration with starting my patch, from nothing, also...)
It is a very user friendly set up...and Correy is right - most gardeners enjoy sharing etc...the changes Correy mentioned on 29th may be a good idea too.
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amanda19
Geraldton. Mid West WA
30th April 2011 10:07pm
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J says...
Having met violet, Jujube4sale and jantina in real life because of this forum, I have to agree with violet. There is also a wealth of info that has proven useful in setting up my own garden. I also agree that this forum helps daley with sales because I've bought bundles of stuff through them :)
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J
uopwey
1st May 2011 6:14pm
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Violet_Cactus says...
Yes that was a great day, J. I really enjoyed getting together and swapping plants and seeing gardens!
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VioletCactus1
Melbourne
2nd May 2011 8:29pm
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