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King Thai Mango

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BJ starts with ...
Has anyone ever heard of this mango before? Birdwood sell them through Bunnies, but I've not been able to get any info from either of them.

The only reference to it online is a picture of a huge elongated mango in thailand...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/inju/5664806082/
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
4th June 2011 8:23am
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Peter says...
There is a rumour that it is 'Maha Chanook' which is kept in the Australian Mango genbank. If you google under this name, the the fruit characteristics and tree characteristics match quite nicely.
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Peter36
Perth
4th June 2011 3:00pm
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Mike says...
It won't be the real name and it is a whopper alright.The elephant tusk group of mangoes eg Tom ky Ken and the ones we label cedar bay and raboul may be a bit longer at times.There are big yellow versions of falan,pram kai meu,pimseng,mun kun si and even big okrung varieties and it is probably one of these.I doubt it will be in Australia.We have a preference for colourful skin,a bit more turps and fibre and an american lineage.
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Cairns
1st July 2011 9:27pm
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Peter says...
So Mike, you don't think it is Maha Chanook?
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Peter36
 
2nd July 2011 12:08am
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Mike says...
Peter, the name inicates a thai rather than singapore mango.Maha chinook usually has a pink flush and looks like a nam dok mai x Keow Savoy cross and not as
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Cairns
2nd July 2011 9:13am
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Peter says...
and not as...?
You mentioned earlier, that you doubt that falan, etc. are in Australia. I had a look what's kept in the Australian Mango genbank and there is Falan, Falan 97,Muhn Kohm, Okrong, OK Rong 97 - so officially these ones are available and if you think one of these, then it is possible.
King Thai has drooping branches, so which one of the onnes you mentioned has them as well? I have one young tree and if you know what to look for to identify by vegetative means, this would interesting.
Actually, Birdwood should at least have the real name in brackets as well to avoid increase of cultivar names, which turn out not to be additional cutivars.
But maybe it is their own controlled crossing and deserve a new name? If the original person does not contact Birdwood to find out, I will do that soon.
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Peter36
 
2nd July 2011 11:05am
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Mike says...
Sorry Peter I meant that the odd forms or giant forms probably wouldn't be here, I know the standard okrung and falan are.They are like groups themselves and there are thousands of mango variations in SE Asia and we can only have a fraction.The names of varieties of all sorts of fruits change between countries just look at bananas or pineapples and you shouldn't have to be a detective to know what your getting even if someone has exclusive distribution rights.I have trouble teliing the trees apart to variety level but okrung,nam dok mai and falan look a bit droopy to me.
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Cairns
2nd July 2011 11:27am
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BJ says...
i've never had any response to any emails I've ever sent to Birdwood. I will be able to ask them personally at the Expo next weekend though.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
2nd July 2011 4:58pm
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Mike says...
I just noticed that a previous response was cut off.'Not as' big as the mango in the picture most of the time.Why the identity is strange is mainly that king thai is an unexpected local name for a singapore mango (maha chanook).Most village and backyard trees in SE Asia don't have a formal name and if it is one of those it probably had a real name pinned on it.The commercial Asian types that can be picked green for transport and all at once and have a name are not always the best for gardens.
I think KP is the only non-asian mango in australia that can compete in terms of taste.It still is not as good as the top asians in my view.It is subjective and some people love the turpsy hint.
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Cairns
2nd July 2011 6:04pm
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BJ says...
I like Florigon and Ataulfo also. i don't think any could match the PSM Carabao.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
2nd July 2011 9:01pm
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Mike says...
Bj is that the favoured Philipine rediscovered one they are planting all over the place now? If it is I haven't tried it but read how the philipine people reagard it.
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Cairns
2nd July 2011 9:06pm
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Peter says...
Thanks people from the East. Here in WA there is such a lot to catch up with about growing different mango cultivars. Only a few years ago many nurseries would just source KP and R2E2, insisting that only these would succeed in Perth. I never believed it. Luckily there is a change now and more choice is available. Birdwood labels now even mention suitability for Perth, if applicable. I guess, we could get a great headstart from people in the Eastern states talking about good cultivars for regions further down the East coast, comparibale with the Perth climate. Please any suggestions?
Ono? King Thai? Irwin? Banana?
I know Glenn does the right things at the right time in Perth and might bear every year and has also a good disease resistance.
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Peter36
Perth
2nd July 2011 11:37pm
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Mike says...
Perth/SW WA with its strong winter rainfall peak is much like California and mangoes come from a summer peak rainfall and humidity zone.I'd be checking the recommendations and success in California.There are a limited number resistant to anthracnose and it is pretty easy to google up a chart and compare what's available with resistance.Tommy Atkins,Van dyke and I think Hayden are resistant, very productive and colourful and perhaps the most cultivated in the world.Unfortunately like many american mangoes they are not also winners in the taste department.Irwin is small,red and susceptible,Ono is small purple and yellow and susceptible and both taste ok.I don't know about Glenn and the other two might not be real names.
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Cairns
3rd July 2011 8:58am
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Peter says...
Banana is a long, yellow polyembryonic cultivar.
Hayden is generally regarded is vulnerable to fungal disease, but you never know, sometimes the same cultivar behaves very differenly in different countries even with similar climate.
I hope that one day Mallika will be available, which the Tropical Fruit Nursery regards as superb flavour, unparalled disease resistance and being extremly productive.
Sometimes I wonder, why we don't see these cultivars for sale...
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Peter36
Perth
3rd July 2011 2:54pm
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Mike says...
BJ mentioned caraboa and I reckon sam ru du would also be a real winner.A few sorts get called banana around here but hey are small.I might google mallika to sus it out.It is disappointing we don't have most of the good ones. We don't have any of the hawaiin or floridian avos, many of the guavas,sapodillas and in fact many fruit varieties developed in the last 40 years or so.
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Cairns
3rd July 2011 4:15pm
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Mike says...
Peter I see Mallika is a cross of the top quality Neelum and Dasheri from india and it is very plain in appearance.It sure sounds like an exceptional variety.In a few short decades it might hit our shores but will no doubt be cue jumped by red skinned turpsy american types.
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Cairns
3rd July 2011 10:02pm
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BJ says...
Peter confirmed 'King Thai' is the Maha Chinook mango.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
9th July 2011 2:20pm
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Peter says...
That's great. This forum is great for solving questions like this.
I wonder, if forum people have Maha Chinook and could tell, if it is better in fruit set for colder areas like Perth (or Eastern States equivalent) than KP.
My tree flowers earlier than KP, my first fruit has set last season, but not pollinated. Even half size only because of missed out pollination,at least it did not fall off like KP often does with it's unpollinated flowers. Hopefully it holds this nubbins better.
Seems to have a good disease resistance so far.
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Peter36
Perth
10th July 2011 12:14am
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BJ says...
Hi Mike,
Is the Sam Ru Du mango available here?
Do you know where one might find one?
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
15th July 2011 1:04pm
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Mike says...
BJ I had one today from Rusty's Market and it was great. One person west of Mareeba has them after importing them from Thailand.They have been such a bonanza that I am sure he will not be sharing the variety.
I am sure many of the KP,Calypso amd R2E2 growers as well as backyard hobbyists would like to get them.I suppose it would take someone else importing the trees for them to be available but I don't know if someone could have sole distribution rights if a well established type in another country.
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Cairns
15th July 2011 6:17pm
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BJ says...
Good to know Mike. I will be in Cairns in 4 weeks and will check Rustys for the fruit. Do you know if Po Pyu Kalay is in the country? I'd love to find that one.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
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15th July 2011 8:27pm
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Mike says...
BJ I hope sam ru du is still for sale at that time and they are always mislabelled.They look like Ok rung.I believe that is the lemon merange mango of myanmar and thailand and the answer is no I as far as I'm aware.We seem to be missing most of the exceptional and unusual types but do have some.
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Cairns
15th July 2011 8:40pm
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BJ says...
Hi Mike, I visited Rusty's, but couldn't find the Sam Ru Du mangoes. NDMs were out in force along with yellow bananas, as were small KPs and a few R2E2s. I did pick up a few fruits I thought were canistel, but have a shiny, leatehry skin and are elongated and a little papaya looking - a bit like fruitist's 'lucuma'. Very different to the other canistels I've eaten.

Also, my King Thai mango is flowering, and it looks very much like the Maha Chinook's flower stalk. I might try to upload images if I get the time on the weekend.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
24th August 2011 3:18pm
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Mike says...
BJ The Sam ru dus always go by other names in Australia and they were there as banana mangoes or something else.Nam dok mais are already around in abundance also for the last month.Those long canistel from the philipine lady fronting sheridan street never seem to go quite ripe and are a bit dry but the round ones from the malaysian chinese fellow inside are better.I have bought both types and they are both classic canistel varieties.
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Cairns
24th August 2011 4:17pm
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Peter says...
Hi Mike,
I just discovered your last post.
Do you mean that the mango cultivar nurseries sell as 'Banana' is actually 'Sam Ru Du'?
In that case, Sum Ru Du is available.
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Peter36
Perth
9th November 2011 3:23pm
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M Nash says...
I have a "Banana Ken" and an "Ono" I picked up from Bunnings last season, Growing well. I Could never find just what the banana ken axactly is?
Flowers dropped as can be expected so I have not seen what the fruit looks like yet.
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MNash1
Terranora Northern NSW
9th November 2011 4:15pm
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Mike says...
Peter I think banana mangoes and strawberry mangoes can be any of a number of varieties.Sam Ru du I believe has a form called chokodam or something similar.I picked about 100 bowens in the park last week and have been tanking up ever since,including drying some and freezing some.
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Cairns
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BJ says...
my King Thai set a few fruits this season. Its still too slender to hold them and grow into a decently shaped tree, so I had to pick them off with much regret. Hopefully it will pay dividends next season! Im letting my Allison Red KP hold a few though, as its a bit thicker and is a dwarf KP anyways.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
9th November 2011 8:19pm
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Peter says...
Ok, there are a lot of different names around - impossible to sort out...
There are also at least two different versions in the net about the parents of Maha Chinook...
Anyway, as long as it is a good mango cultivar - it is great to hear from other people what works in their area.
Soon I hope, somebody further south than Brisbane will be able to tell how the King Thai behaves in a cooler place.
My tree seems to set fruit, even there is nightmare weather for mangoes this spring here in Perth (cold and rainy during flowering).
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Peter36
Perth
9th November 2011 10:35pm
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BJ says...
I was lurking on the net the other day and saw that Tou's Garden (NT mango growers) had trademarked and were growing 1000 Maha Chanook trees. They also noted that:

Tou's Garden Maha Chinook

The Maha Chinook mango is trademarked by Tou's Garden in Australia based on a clone of the original Thai Maha Chinook, a natural clone of Sunset, which was first identified at Lampoon, Northern Thailand.

Maha Chinook is a large, regular bearing fiberless fruit with a flat seed similar in shape to Nam Doc Mai mangoes, but having a warm glowing blush colour when mature. The original Maha Chinook is a mid to late season variety popular for export in Japan and Europe.

Specifications:
•Popularity: four star rating
•Brix: 16 - 19
•Taste: sweet
•Availability: late November
•Colour: yellow/pink
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
30th November 2011 1:12pm
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Peter says...
Thanks BJ.
Lots of more info now compared to when this thread was started!
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Peter36
Perth
30th November 2011 1:22pm
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Brain says...
@bj, can u kindly let me know where i can track down a king thai in brisbane? Have tried 6 bunnings in the south side without luck. I actually would love to have all the dwarf range from birdswood, or daley if they sell them.

So far, the red alison kp, mackay kp, irwin, sensation, palmer from birdswood/bunnings, a pravin from bunnings as well (not sure where from). All dwarf labeled, but i wonder if they are actually on dwarf rootstock and how tall will it grow. Plus a nam doc mai from daley here on regular rootstock.

The nam doc mai from daley did fruit quiet well, but the heavy rain in bris caused the fruits to split. So i would recommend this to others if they are keen to see some fruit. But it can be disheartening to see your prized mango split. But if weather is on the right side, then i think is worth the effort. The alison red kp is also a winner with at least one fruit still on tree despite the heavy rain.
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Brain
Bne
24th December 2011 3:28am
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BJ says...
The two Bunnings I frequent are Stafford and Carseldine. They have had them a few times this year. They seem to re-stock their dwarf mangoes around once a month. They've had lots of Palmers (yuck), AR KP, Banana, and a few King Thai. its worth giving them a call, as they should either have one on hand or could get one with their next delivery...
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Theposterformerlyknownas
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24th December 2011 9:03am
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Brain says...
Thanks very much for the tip, most appreciated.
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Brain
Bne
24th December 2011 1:36pm
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Brain says...
Just saw an episode of the garden guru and assuming their facts are acurate, the banana mango is an indian mango, hybridised for australian conditions. Looks a bit like the king thai actually, considering they were in thailand and it was the right shape and colour, so the plot thickens.
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Bne
1st January 2012 12:58pm
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Brendan says...
Yeah Brian, (or is it Brain :-)? I saw that show too, that banana mango they showed was much bigger than mine, and when mine ripens, it turns a red colour?
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Mackay, Q
2nd January 2012 9:30am
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BJ says...
Just went out and had a look at my mango plants. noticed something strange about the new growth on the Alison Red KP - leaves only on one side of new flush, the other side has a bunch of inflorescences! Would that make it potentially a double cropper - summer and winter crops? Having KPs in winter would be nice...
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Theposterformerlyknownas
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4th February 2012 9:49am
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David says...
BJ, talked to a phillipino gent the other day, he lives in carina, in his front yard there is a mango tree that has had fruit on it full size in june, this tree regularly reflowers if the first dosnt set, i asked if i could get some grafting material he said no problem, fruit is bowen shape but this tree out performs any others in brisbane ive seen.
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4th February 2012 2:31pm
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Brain says...
The choc annan mango aka miracle mango also fruits in winter, potentially 2crops per year. But research suggest the taste is only so-so, so not sure if worth the effort in growing. Anyhow, it is available in australia!
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Brain
Brisvegas
12th February 2012 8:05am
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Mike says...
I ate 3 of them yesterday toget the seeds and they are exquisite with nam dok mai and okrung overtones and way better than KP hence the higher price.Chocadam and Sam rud du(thai 3 seasons) appear to be variations of the same thing. While they can have 3 crops a year the summer crop taste best.The single farmer near Mareeba growing them,Keow saweoy and nam dok mai is flourishing compared to the bowen and american style mango growers in the district.
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12th February 2012 8:18am
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ROBERT says...
hi everyone i have a cedar bay and my mangoes are sold at rusty markets every friday and saturday by ROBERT how has a small stall they are sold green as the flying bats love them
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ROBERT14
cairns
11th November 2012 3:33pm
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David says...
Today located the king Thai mango for sale. Just a short trip to Templex nursery. Lots for sale $38.00, good sized Dwarf King Thai Mango trees for sale
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David
Brisbane
29th November 2012 10:43pm
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BJ says...
Mine have two fruit on now. They should both stay on full term, so I'll have to give the report in a few months. The Allison Red KP that I got at the same time is doing even better. It also seems to flower in winter. The Dwarf king thai seems quite vigorous for a dwarf.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
29th November 2012 10:57pm
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Brain says...
Thank you David for the update, I will be making a trip this Sat. I have been trying to get my hands on a king thai for a year, I even went to visit 9 bunnings all over Brisbane with no luck! so very excited, wish I didn't have to work tomorrow (friday).

This year, my Allison Red KP has one fruit, same as last year. So instead of being a $30 mango, it may become a $15 mango. However my Mackay KP has 5 fruit, so fingers and toes crossed.

No fruit formed this year with my Nam Doc Mai (Daley plant) :( [But during the year of floods, I had like 20 fruit but all of them cracked open with the excessive rain].

The trails and tribulations of fruit tree growing continues.
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Brain
Brisbane
29th November 2012 11:43pm
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Original Post was last edited: 29th November 2012 11:51pm
VF says...
David, that is great news - thanks for the update. Can't get there before Monday - hope there'll still be one left! (You have probably caused a mad rush. haha)

BJ and Brain, apart from being dwarf varieties, do the Al.Red KP and McKay KP have other differences to regular KP?
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VF
Wongawallan
30th November 2012 6:56am
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BJ says...
The ARKP is supposed to be the same in taste as KP, but far more dwarf (mother tree 15ft tall at 40yo or something like that) and better suited to cooler temperature and higher rainfall areas, being selected on the Sunshine Coast. It also has a far more red blush than your standard KP. Mine will hold at least 4 fruit. My Kwan is the best for fruit potential though, it flowered so heavily it snapped itself in half, then flowered again and now has 15 baby fruits on a tiny bush - 5 that will hold full term if I let the tree. I'll knock off all but 1-2 as they will get too large for the tree to hold without splitting itself again!
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
30th November 2012 9:21am
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Db says...
I don't have anything to say abt King Thai but just an update abt my other 2 varieties - My Kwan mango plant also flowered in this season, I bought it from Daley's sometime mid this year.. Its tiny plant being only 1.5 ft tall now but it still flowered in its first season (1 big flower spike), I removed that big flower spike just when tiny fruits started to form, then tree flowered again with 2 spikes, so I've decided to remove flower bit later once they are bigger than pea size... When it re-flowered, flower spike was so big that it almost touched the ground... Now it has around 10-15 pea size fruits on one spike and lots of tiny fruits on same, it also has one more smaller spike... Is it ok the remove those fruits now so that plant can put energy in new growth? I certainly don't want it to re-flower...

Also, my Glen mango is hold 3 fruits now in its first season, they are almost golf ball size now, one might be dropped soon as its turning yellow now... I want to taste it so I'll keep at least one :)
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Db
Brisbane
30th November 2012 10:03am
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Original Post was last edited: 30th November 2012 10:05am
Brain says...
BJ is certainly the authority here, so if there is something that BJ doesn't know, it's not worth knowing. LOL.

Fruit wise, I've only ever had one (and tasted one) AR KP reaching maturity, so statistically insignificant. However the skin did have more red hue than your average KPs in the supermarket. Taste wise, it tastes like normal KP. However, i did find my AR to be more fiberous than supermarket KP. So I don't know if this is down to genetics or environmental factors, i.e. Brain here is only average at growing mangos and can't compete with full time professionals.

As for the trees itselves, I don't have a 'normal' KP for comparison. But comparing the AP and Mackay, they both look very similar, and if it weren't for the label, I certainly couldn't tell them apart. I've also found the Mackay version to be a bigger plant than the AP and is little bit more vigourous. I.e. AP can be considered slow growing and Mackay - normal, even if both are labeled dwarfs. And my growing observations seems to fit what BJ is saying.

Anyway, this brings me to the next question, is there such thing as dwarfing mango rootstocks? I have found literatures on other fruit dwarf rootstocks (like Flying Dragon for citrus, MMxx for apple and some various ones for cherry), but dwarf mango rootstocks infos have eluded me.

For example, let say you have a dwarfing type tree as the scion, but you have it grafted to a vigourous rootstock, what size of a tree would you have? I've read on the daley pages, they graft all their mangos onto KP rootstock, so I would assume it would come out to be a decent size tree. Then we have these so call dwarf mangos like AR KP, where growth and vigous wise would say it is a natural dwarf. But what about other dwarfs, like the dwarf King Thai, is it on a true dwarf rootstock, where size is contained like a flying dragon or some other magic is at work? LOL.

thanks in advance for the educations :)
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Brain
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BJ says...
Im no expert, I've just had the opportunity and good fortune to talk to experts and am happy to pass it on. Plus, Im excited to grow the new varieties that are getting rave reviews elsewhere.

Best bet for dwarfing rootstocks are small growing poly mangoes. I havent been able to ask Birdwood what the rootstocks for their dwarf range are. Good candidates are probably NDM#4 and Falan.

Not all types are dwarfed by rootstock. Vigrous growers like VP will still get large on whatever rootstock you use. I notice my ARKP is developing a bit of an elephant's foot as the rootstock is faster than the cv.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
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30th November 2012 12:01pm
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VF says...
Excellent info - thanks BJ, Brain and Db.
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Wongawallan
1st December 2012 6:30am
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VF says...
Hooray! Managed to get to Templex and now officially have a KT. Thanks for heads up David. Not many left - owners saying that word has spread fast and that they've been selling like hot-cakes. Managed to get one about 5ft with 2 inflorescences and some set little fruits (yes, I'm cheating. I'll baby these in hope of getting one edible.)There was another plant there with a set fruit about size of a decent broadbean if anyone interested.
Small hijack here - Db, if you're still interested in Wax Jambu, there was one fairly advanced size one with lots of new growth emerging for ?$38.
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David says...
Vf ,no worries. Ill keep my ears and eyes open glad to be of service.
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David
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1st December 2012 10:12pm
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Brain says...
On this glorious day First of December 2012, Brain has inducted himself into the great hall of King Thai Growers Club. :)

I was sort of in a rush, so didn't check all the plants out. And am extremely jealous of VF's plant with his little fruits.

But all in all, a very good day, got my plant and extremely happy!
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Brain
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1st December 2012 10:17pm
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Mike says...
Speaking of NDM the 3 at the back are an unusual form that gets a bit of pink when ripening.Yes the tai so lychees are around now and mango enthusiasts will recognise sam ru du at the front.The mangosteen is a borneo small leafed type with etra tang in the fruit.They can be recognised by their more pointy tip,larger size and tiny terminal star.
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Cairns
1st December 2012 10:37pm
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Brain says...
I just re-read the posts here and trying to cross reference where exactly did Maha Chanook comes from? A lot of web sites say Singapore but they are all copied from the same script. So if anyone has any reference that proves it originated from Singapore or someone got the genetics from Singapore, I'd love to know.

Anyway, slightly off topic, something just clicked. "Cedar Bay" is actually a variety of mango, not just grown in 'cedar bay'. http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/PeoplePlaces/FruitFest3-89.htm

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Brain
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VF says...
Try googling Rainbow mango (another name for MC/KT) also. I found that it originated in Thailand, coming from cross between Mexican and Thai varieties. Whether it's true? Here's one link http://goodfruitguide.co.uk/fruits/mango/maha-chanok .(There are a couple more, but like you have found, they tend to be a copy.)

Mike, we don't get the scrumptious diversity that you do (at least not in my neck of the woods), but now we are starting to even it up a little. Haha
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2nd December 2012 7:18am
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David says...
VF up with the birds i see
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JUJUBE FOR SALE IN MELBOURNE says...
Beautiful and yummy fruits Mike! thanks for posting the picture. I wish I was there.
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JUJUBE FOR SALE
 
2nd December 2012 7:23am
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VF says...
Good Morining David, yeah, I'm usually outside at the crack of dawn checking plants and fruit - very peaceful....
I've done a typo with above link supplied, try http://goodfruitguide.co.uk/fruits/mangoes/maha-chanok
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David says...
Thanks for the link the more you know the more you understand
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MaryT says...
Mike––love the photo. You should be put in charge of the "Come to Cairns" campaign :) Tropical fruit and Fresh Caught Fish, what more could one want? :)
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MaryT
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2nd December 2012 8:50am
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Db says...
You guys have provoked me enough to visit Templex nursery, so thanks David, VF, Brain and BJ as well.. Yesterday I visited this nursery to have a look at King Thai and Wax Jambu that VF mentioned above... Didn't buy Wax Jambu in end as as lot of people say they don't like it, so I will consider it after I taste it some day. I bought 5ft tall King Thai Mango tree and Finger Lime - Rainforest pearl... I called nursery in morning to check if any KT had fruit on it, owner said one tree have small fruits but by the time I visited nursery in afternoon those fruits were dropped so only fruitless spike remained so I skipped that smaller plant and bought 5 ft tall instead.. Hopefully it will flower in next season...

Rainforest Pearl finger limes in Templex are expensive ($48) but VERY advance.. The one that I purchased is already 4.5 ft tall and loaded with fruits, mine have 20 fruits of 3 inch size, Around 15 more plants available of same size if anyone is interested. Just off topic question - how big this finger lime fruit grow and how to know when it is ready to pick?
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Db
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3rd December 2012 9:56am
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Brain says...
Db, welcome to the club! And kudos to great David who just made legendary status. Now, if we can get Mike to get us all a Sam Ru Du tree for Christmas ...

also a little off topic, anyone know of anyone in Brisbane (shop/stall/whatever) selling the Sam Ru Du fruit?

As for the Sam Ru Du tree? Anyone in Australia has a spare tree? Please don't make me beg :).

I am also convinced I tasted a SRD fruit a few years ago and the taste was superior to the NDM. Hence the obsession.

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Brain
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BJ says...
Brain, I believe only one farm has SRD trees and is reluctant to part with material as he has a foothold in the NQ market now. Thye also need to be able to recoup the $$$ spent on importing the trees... They should grow true to type from seed though and I have a spare seedling if you want.

Db, great pickup on the KT/MC mango. Mine are sizing up nicely. As for Rainforest Pearl I can only offer my commiserations. Its a great grower and fruits like mad. Mine got to 12ft in full sun and scorched earth, but I really disliked the fruit. The skin has a very high oil content which makes it unuseable for marmelade and such. Its okay in drinks though, but thats about it. I sent mine to tree heaven after its thorns got too big. If you do put it in the ground make sure its well out of the way as the thorns are nasty and can jag you in the eye. It makes a nice nesting site for stick insects, which cover the branches in their cocoons.

$48 is not bad for a grafted fingerlime. Consider the price one would pay ex Daleys plus shipping and you'd come to roughly the same.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
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Db says...
BJ, sad to know that you didn't liked taste of rainforest pearl, I should have really checked with you first before buying.. Does all finger lime tastes similar, how abt Sunshine yellow or tasty green that Daleys lists? I recently purchased Collette from Daleys, plant is just 1 ft tall, it is holding one fruit now but still very small (1 inch), it flowered crazily after couple of weeks of transplanting in bigger pot but all tiny fruits are dropping... I'll be growing both in pot so that I can move them around considering they are spiky..

Sorry for this off-topic discussion...
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Db
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BJ says...
Db, Raindforset Pearl is bulletproof and will grow well for you, but there are only so many of the oily type fruits I could eat. Others are very different. Collette is a good clean, strong limey flavour. Ricks Red is a delicious sweet raspberry x lime flavour that I like eating out of hand. The best ones are usually the selected superior green types and the dark red and orange types. The standard greens and pinks can be a bit hit and miss - there are a few okay ones, but many have that oily skin and a non descript acid-citrus taste.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
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Brain says...
Hey BJ, I will take you up on your kind offer. In return, I could offer you a Trinidad Scorpion Butch T seedling - the current world record holder of the hottest chilli - though, that title is currently being challenged by Trinidad Scorpion Moruga. I brought some seeds from ebay and managed to geminate only 2 last fortnight. It currently only has 2 and a little bit of leaves but I'd say in a months time, they should be strong enough to be transplanted/transported. I will also add that I don't know if the ebay seller has isolated his plant and the chilli seeds will definitely comes true to type or not, either way, worth a try. If chilli isn't your thing, let me know what else interests you and I will see what I can do.

About 5 years ago, I brought 2 Thai type looking mangos from the markets. The lady told me they are new mangos into Australia, came from Cairns and couldn't tell me the name of the variety. The were very yellow, small, aromatic, and thin, with seeds almost paper thin. It was the best tasting mango I ever tasted and ever since that day, I tried with no success to find them again. I searched all over the net and only come up with NDM. However, upon tasting quite a few NDM over the years, i'm convinced they are not it. So in desperation, I've gotten myself a few Thai mango trees (NDM, Choc Annan, Elephant Tusk, Keow Savoey & of course the King Thai). Anyway, seeing Mike's picture above brings the possibility that it could have been SRD, so I must get that also. LOL.
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Brain
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VF says...
If anyone in Brisbane/G.Coast missed out on KT, they have some at Beaudesert Mitre10 nursery, also Florigon mango and White Goose Feijoa; all plants $38.99, all between 4-5 ft.
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VF
Wongawallan
11th December 2012 5:10pm
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amanda says...
I decided to swap out my Tommy Atkins tree for a King Thai instead (Semi dwarf rootstock)....I hope I have made a better choice? :) Being well south of Perth and having not only flowering - but fruit set also on my R2E2 and the T/atkins (within 3 months of planting them) made me feel bold enough to try the K/Thai....

Amazingly - we had not had a day over about 27oC before they flowered...and fairly cool nights too...

Dawsons (in Cottesloe) had very nice grafted trees (where I got the K/Thai yesterday)

This is/was the T/atkins fruiting down here in Leschenault Perth peter.. :)





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amanda19
Leschenault (160kms south of Perth)
21st December 2012 12:20am
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Mike says...
Amanda you have the Midas touch turning trash to gold.That is unless you're a big fan of turpsy overtones.TA is more cold tolerant and productive however.
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amanda says...
Hehe... I don't know about that Mike ;-) Don't all grafted mangoes behave this way..? There has been very little choice over this side - until recently.

It's a new frontier for sandgropers - working out what will grow and where...

I'd be happy with just a Honey Gold but they aren't for sale yet. Anything more refined might be wasted on me...hehe...(although I'm not a fan of turpentine flavours either..which u said about TA b4 - hence I turfed it in favour of the K/Thai)

I would love to be able to taste them all in a line-up one day....it would be so interesting...
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amanda19
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22nd December 2012 1:06am
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amanda says...
The tag for the King Thai is interesting "A slightly upright tree growing to 3.5m high..." what do they mean by slightly upright..? Hmnnn.. ;)
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amanda19
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23rd December 2012 11:16am
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Brain says...
Probably BJ can answer that, as he's had the KT for a while. I'd say, the KT probably likes to not branch and spread out horizontally. Certain, the plant that I brought is tall and skinny. Just tip pruned it to see if it will branch out a little.
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Brain
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25th December 2012 12:06am
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BJ says...
It probably means upright and moderate vigour. It doesnt branch out horizontally. Even when you chop it low it branches in a very upright manner. The flower panicles are huge and the fruit should nudge 20cm when mature, but they dont bend the branches down as do KP and others (Keitt being the worst) but they hang on very long stalks which dont seen to weigh the branches down much.

Amanda, if you ever got the chance to line up KP, King Thai, Keitt, Kent, R2E2, TA, Nam Doc Mai, Honey Gold, Kyo Savoy, Falan and Elephant tusk you'd find that each has a noticeably different taste. They all taste of mango, but with a wide range of variations. Someone mentioned that its like wine snobs detecting 'subtle notes' of things that are pretty well imaginary between different brands of wine, but often the differences are more like those between shiraz and rose.

VF - White Goose for $38 - thats a good buy as they are usually an extra $5odd from the rest due to the PBR thats put on top of Birdwood's regular prices. They are $43 in Bunnings here and Mammoths are $36.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
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25th December 2012 10:15pm
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amanda says...
Thanks BJ...what one's do you like the best? What's your opinion on king thai? It's is an odd shape too - this one has been nipped in the bud b4 and not branched out at all (only one leader stem - and it's 1.5m tall..?)
Do I need to try cutting it again maybe..?

(That was my silly comment about the wine... It was waffle so I got rid of it ;-)
It's great that we finally have access to these varieties over here...I can't believe we have been denied them for so long!?
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amanda19
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26th December 2012 11:14am
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BJ says...
I cut mine at about metre to keep them low. You should do it to king thai as it will have more fruiting branches at picking height that way.

its also a fairly standard asian type mango shape, just bigger than most bar the elephant tusk family. it is awesome.

I rate most of the asian types highly and the old american types lowly. KP is still my standard that i can eat by the truckload, but NDM, Kyo Savoy, Kwan and even some green falan are good scattered throughout the season. The other Aussie selections are in the 'okay' category - Calypso is a nice pleasant mango without fibre issues and R2E2 is fine. Keitt and Kent are not in the top tier and I'll only eat a few per season before the novelty of giant green turpsy mangoes dies. There are other cultivars recently selected in Florida/Panama that are supposed to be other worldly good, like Coconut Cream, Lemon Zest and Orange Sherbet, but those will take a while to get here (only LZ is poly). Im on the lookout for a Po Pyu Kalay aka Lemon Meringue, which is an old south east asian type that is poly, but i cant find it anywhere, though it must be here...
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26th December 2012 10:35pm
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amanda says...
Great run-down BJ. It's great to hear that KP's are still rated well by the tropical members - cos I still love them too :)
It will be interesting to see how the K/Thai goes here - it's worth testing the limits of all our fruit trees IMHO...there can be nice surprises for sure..
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26th December 2012 11:25pm
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Brain says...
slightly off topic

I'm looking forward to try these. :)

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David says...
Interesting Brain, where did you purchase them , and yes what did they taste like.
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Brain says...
I'm in Singapore for the next few days and this was just purchased off the local western style supermarket.

I need to find some local fruit market in the hope of sampling some other varieties.

Anyway, google search indicates these Thailand Golden Honey is the marketing name to Nam Doc Mai. http://thailand-mango.com

I am a little disappointed because I was actually hoping for some really exotic variety.

Despite the complete yellow colour, it is still quite firm at the moment, will probably wait for 1 more day before digging in. I think the difference between Australian ones is that these are picked matured and ripen, and thus bigger in size in general. Will keep everyone posted on the taste test.

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Brain
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28th December 2012 3:12am
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Brain says...
by the way, the website mentioned has some nice pics of King Thai/ Mahachanok
http://thailand-mango.com/th_seasonal-mango,79.html

and I can see why it lends itself to be called the rainbow mango.
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Brain
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28th December 2012 3:28am
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VF says...
Thanks for the posts and links Brain. Good to know that (at least for mangoes), here in Oz we have some of the best varieties available to us now. Unfortunate spelling of Nam Doc Mai though! Dork?!
The KT is attractive with its' multi-hues. Rainbow indeed. Hope you find some and get to taste. Enjoy your NDM anyway.
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28th December 2012 7:29am
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Brain says...
the NDM tasted a bit ordinary to be honest. It is quite firm in texture, with parts of it being very sweet and parts of it being very sour. It has a nutty undertone with very little fibre. I think it is an acquired taste and to be honest, tasted exactly like the ones in Australia.

The only exception is, the Australian versions are sold green and you have to ripen it yourself, whereas in Singapore, it's sold ripened and larger, possibly due to it being 'export quality'

If I'm honest with myself, KP taste is superior to NDM.

I have tasted good NDM before where all parts of the mango is sweet but this is rarity rather than rule.

So the elusive search for awesome mango continues.

Also, I suspected we did a trade with Thailand where we swapped mango genetics.
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Brain
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VF says...
Just an update of KT bought a month ago. One set fruit just over 40mm (hopefully a keeper now) on one inflorescence. Lost a few fruit between 20-30mm on second spike, when a third inflorescence developed on the end of the second.(Is that unusual, flowering again from the end of a flower?) Anyway, small fruit setting well on third spike - hopefully have at least one of these develop.
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VF
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David says...
VF still havnt planted the King Thai from Templex yet (im lazy basically).One thing i have noticed is that 3 yrs ago purchased a Valencia Pride mango (or so i thought ) from Templex it looks like its a R2E2 ,not the common VP shape. So will have to look out for a VP to replace it ,i understand that VP has a remarkable flavour.
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David
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7th January 2013 6:54pm
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VF says...
Disappointing re VP. I've read too that they're good, but grow into monsterous sized trees - hope you have the room! (If I see one, I'll give you a shout). I recently gave in and bought a Florigon against my better judgement - but what the heck! Should be nice, but a small fruit.

BTW, don't get the guilts for not planting KT - my soursop (from late autumn) still not out, going to be big job so I keep putting it off. Hopefully it's not too root bound...
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VF
Wongawallan
7th January 2013 7:27pm
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David says...
Thanks VF,just started picking Florigan off my 10yr old tree.We had a huge Jacaranda felled just before xmas, i susspect it was host to the fruit spotting bug, now with that gone just doing some mopping up so to speak. The felling of the tree knocked off a number of Florigan and Glenn Mangoes. Florigan is pretty productive and sets fruit well Some genetic anthracnose tollerance to i understand ,so that helps.
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David
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7th January 2013 8:17pm
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BJ says...
Good going on the KT VF! I've got two on my tree, which is quite a vigorous upright grower at this stage. Largest fruit is about 20cm long. I had some drop at around 5cm, so do your best to keep that one on there. My Kwan is about 40cm heigh and has three fruit on. i let it hold them as it just wont be told otherwise, everytime i cut them off it reflowers and fruits again!
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Theposterformerlyknownas
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7th January 2013 8:22pm
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VF says...
Thanks BJ - not sure what else I can do. KT has had a general feed, Seaweed, trace elements and cow manure. Is there anything else? And wow, your little Kwan sounds like a ripper - hope mine fruits next year (bought it after flowering ).

David, thanks for info on Florigon - will look forward to it fruiting. Glad about disease resistance - I avoid using Copper sprays if I can, as I worry about soil toxicity. What is your Glenn like, both as fruit and trees? I planted one at same time as KT.
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VF
Wongawallan
11th January 2013 8:00am
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Db says...
My KT mango tree that I bought at Templex nursery has no sign of putting any side branches and its only going up.. Currently its 7-8ft tall without any side branches.. If I cut it at say 3-4ft, will it produce more than one branches or is it still possible that it will produce only one branch again and it starts going upward (which i don't prefer)?
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Db
Brisbane
13th February 2013 4:28pm
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VF says...
Db, read a post further back from BJ, should help. If you were unlucky enough to only have only one new growing point to grow, I'd pinch out its' tip to force it to branch.
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VF
Wongawallan
14th February 2013 8:00am
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Brain says...
I pinched out the tip when I purchased the plant and now it has 2 nodes swelling up. The upright habbit is definitely there and it will take a bit of time to branch up the tree.
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Brain
Brisbane
14th February 2013 11:01am
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Db says...
Thanks VF and Brain for the reply.. Mine is 8ft tall, so I'm thinking to cut it to 4ft rather than just pinching the tip.. Hopefully it will form more branches..
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Db
Brisbane
14th February 2013 11:26am
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Brain says...
cutting 1/2 your tree off is quite drastic isn't it? methinks it will set your tree back a year.
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Brain
Brisbane
14th February 2013 12:42pm
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Db says...
Really? KT seems to be fast grower.. Mine has put on 1 ft on new growth in last 1 month or so and have also formed new node at tip to put on further growth..
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Db
Brisbane
14th February 2013 12:55pm
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Brain says...
mine is the exact opposite, not an extra leave (let alone any height) since I tip pruned. I suspect KT likes to be tall and narrow and I simply stunned its growth, as least for a while, until new central leaders emerge.

My strategy for my tree is, let the 2 node grow into say 10 cm and then tip prune again. Hopefully the tree gets the hint and grow some side branches. This has worked for most of my other dwarf mangos. Just takes a year (or two) though.
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Brain
Brisbane
14th February 2013 3:01pm
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BJ says...
Mine is quite vigorous and upright. New buds seem to form within days of pruning. Bodes well for my plans to graft a few Kwan scions on in the next few weeks.
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Theposterformerlyknownas
Brisbane
14th February 2013 3:59pm
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Db says...
Good to know BJ.. I'll prune mine and remove top at least 2-3 fts.. 8ft tall without any side branches is not good for mango.. I'm also thinking to graft it on my seedling in pot, I haven't done grafting before.. Any tips? I don't have grafting tape, thinking to use just glad-wrap and plastic support, will it ok or not worth the efforts?
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Db
Brisbane
14th February 2013 4:19pm
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Phil@Tyalgum says...
Mangoes can be air layered if you do it about ten weeks before they bloom - all the hormones at that time are good for root development, so late winter is ideal. An interesing article about it on your Google search.
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phil@tyalgum
Murwillumbah
14th February 2013 5:47pm
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VF says...
Had my KT mango flower about Xmas/new year period. Let a fruit develop, and ate it last week...fantastic! I picked it with some green on it (thanks for the tip BJ), and it took about 8-10 days to ripen. I had guests so it was shared 5 ways. Everyone thought that it was one of the best mangos they'd had both taste wise (rich and even, just enough tang to enhance flavor) and texture (no fibre, enough firmness but still melt in the mouth). Excellent amount of flesh recovery, seed almost paper thin. One guest now considering growing one themselves. I'm seriously anticipating next season!
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VF
Wongawallan
3rd June 2014 10:20am
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MaryT says...
Wow VF that is so tempting! I hope you are sprouting the seed. I wonder if they would grow in Sydney; not that I have the room haha. Looking at my worm farm I think the best way to sprout a mango seed is to bury it in one as I keep finding spouted mango and avocado seeds in mine. In fact just about everything sprout in it. :)
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MaryT
Sydney
3rd June 2014 10:44am
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VF says...
Hi MaryT. No, not growing the seed, I wouldn't have room to plant it or even grow it in a pot. It's in the compost, but easily retrieved if you want it. I don't know if they're mono or polyembryonic.
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VF
Wongawallan
3rd June 2014 9:45pm
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MaryT says...
Thanks, VF but I don't have room either. :( I have a couple of Bowen seedlings and they've been sitting there for years doing nothing so maybe they'll go too. I don't think I have the right condition for mangoes, much as I love them. Thank goodness for Paddy's :)
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MaryT
Sydney
4th June 2014 5:23am
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Jenny says...
Hi VF I was wondering if you could spare some budwood later in the year possibly? I am a very novice grafter (and also have very little room left) but would love to try with your King Thai if you don't mind. Happy to pay postage etc.
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Jenny
Brisbane
4th June 2014 5:55pm
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VF says...
No problem MaryT. You are fortunate to be near a decent market. :)

Jenny, of course. Contact vfand3atgmaildotcom
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VF
Wongawallan
4th June 2014 9:49pm
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MaryT says...
VF I can only get to the Haymarket one; it's OK but not exciting. Maybe this weekend I'll hop on a train and go to Flemington. Wonder if they'll have mangoes.
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MaryT
Sydney
5th June 2014 7:05am
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Jenny says...
Thanks a lot VF email sent. Your description of the King Thai is very tempting!
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Jenny
Brisbane
5th June 2014 10:05am
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VF says...
Got your email Jenny, reply sent.
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VF
Wongawallan
5th June 2014 8:43pm
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Brain says...
VF I'm envious of your success! My tree is slow, I must have picked a growth challenged one. However, hope is eternal. And yes, here's to next mango season. :)
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Brain
Brisbane
6th June 2014 9:11pm
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Tommoz says...
Seeking King Thai (Maha Chanook) plant in NSW or Brisbane area. Thanks
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Tommoz
Dural
27th January 2016 9:05pm
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David says...
Hi Tommoz try Templex nursery at Algester. Run by a lovely couple who know there stuff.Not sure if they post out but are good to pick up from, very healthy trees, aprox,1m high, saw there 2 wks ago. Hope this helps
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David
Springwood
28th January 2016 9:52pm
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ivepeters says...
It seems the marketing push is starting,it looks like a big season starting in NT, with a new name as well.
Mahachanok = King Thai = ' Maha Bliss '
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ivepeters
CARINDALE,4152,QLD
13th July 2016 8:33am
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Ish says...
First fruit from my Dwarf King Thai... still has a few more hanging on the tree. Smaller than anticipated but probably due to tree maturity?

Tree is 3yo, healthy, v hardy (ie survived severe lawn grub attack while still in a pot, drought and all day, full sun exposure at 42 degree temps) and is 2m tall with upright habit (despite my attempts to encourage early branching at 1m, it regrew its central leader and did so when it was good and ready at 1.8m!).

Even for its first attempt, is the tastiest mango I have tried - and I am from QLD, with options.The flesh:seed (prob non-viable) ratio was impressive!
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Ish
,4118,QLD
13th March 2017 7:15pm
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Markmelb says...
Thats great ish, well done - like to see a pic of your tree? I will be growing mine from next spring in a 38 litre root pruning bag,(see pic with Avo) In these pics the King Thai was very slow to kick new growth as was flushing flowers till end of November and was removing constantly after they were identified as not growth leaves but as you can see it budded just above the graft but still unevenly but will leave as is for now.

After removing centre of the Alphonso it grew 5 perfectly even branches and the Glenn grew 4 perfectly even branches too.
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Markmelb
MOUNT WAVERLEY,3149,VIC
15th March 2017 9:18am
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Original Post was last edited: 15th March 2017 9:27am
Ish says...
This is about the best pic I have... you can see the last 2 fruit still ripening. Have heard it called 'rainbow' mango. Maybe this is why? And huge mature leaves! The 4 nice even branches have popped out at 1.8m (and there is almost no sign of where I topped it at 1m); whereas my Glenn branched beautifully at 1m...
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Ish
,4118,QLD
16th March 2017 6:36pm
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Neptune1 says...
Hi everybody, new to the site, this thread has been great. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I'm looking for a dwarf mango tree and King Thai sounds great. Is it a disease resistant tree when grown around Brisbane?
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Neptune1
MANLY WEST,4179,QLD
29th June 2017 10:56pm
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